Episode 270 – Unstoppable Master of Nonprofit Organizations with Dr. Ron Stewart

Unstoppable Mindset

Hearing Dr. Ron Stewart talk about his life and what lead him to undertake a career in service especially at nonprofit organizations is fascinating and spellbinding. Ron grew up on a rural farm in Ohio and, as he describes, neighbors did and had to help each other. As he says, the nearest grocery store was an hour away. Ron tells us about his college life including working during the day as an intern at the American Security Council in Washington DC and then at night he worked for the Grey Panthers, a National seniors organization dedicated to senior-oriented issues. One think I love about listening to Ron is that he clearly is a good communicator and story teller. You will, I think, love hearing Ron and his many insights about nonprofit organizations and nonprofit management. About the Guest: Ronald A. Stewart holds a Doctorate in Organizational Behavior Studies, Leadership & Philanthropy from The Union Institute and University, a Master of Nonprofit Organizations from Case Western Reserve University, and a Bachelor of Arts in Rhetoric and Communications from Kent State University. Dr. Stewart joined Desert Arc in the fall of 2022 as Executive Vice President. In this role he has oversight over all services and programs across the organization’s multi-county service area. Prior to joining as staff, Dr. Stewart served as a consultant to the organization. A native of rural southeastern Ohio, Dr. Stewart is keenly aware of the need to engage young people, especially those from Appalachia, in the consideration of contemporary global issues and to encourage their participation in the delivery of local and global solutions inspired by these increased awarenesses. In 2010, Dr. Stewart established the Ronald A. Stewart Fund for International Study and Service at Case Western Reserve University’s Mandel School of Applied Social Sciences to award qualified students with scholarship assistance so that they may engage in study and service around the globe.

Dr. Stewart resides in southern California’s Coachella Valley. Ways to connect with Dr.Ron: www.DesertArc.org About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hello there, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We appreciate you being here, wherever you happen to be today. Our guest is Ron Stewart, who works with desert ark, and he's going to tell us about that. He's a guy with a doctorate degree and all sorts of other things that that he's done in his life. Comes from the Midwest, I guess, mostly, but now lives out here in California, and we're today trying to make him feel somewhat at home from the Midwest, because we have a lot of rain around Southern California. So what do you do? Ron, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Ron Stewart ** 01:57 Oh, thank you, Michael. I really appreciate this opportunity. Michael Hingson ** 02:01 Well, we're, we're glad you're here, and we're, we're all just not floating away yet. Well, why don't we start Tell me a little bit about kind of the early run growing up and all that back in it's always fun to do that back in the day, Ron Stewart ** 02:16 exactly. Well, I grew up in rural Appalachia, in coal mining territory on the cusp of Ohio and West Virginia, down along the Ohio River. And so I grew up on a little farm where we raised Black Angus cattle. And my father was a long distance truck driver, and my mother was a housekeeper or house, took care of our home, I should say, and the housekeeper of the house, I guess. And I grew up a pretty idyllic life. As a child, I had a huge farm that was my backyard to play on, and spent my days roaming around until I had to go to school, and then when school started, then summers were my what I look forward to to be back and playing on the in the creeks and on the rivers and all the fun stuff that flowed through the farm. After that, I graduated in early 1980s and went to Kent State University in Kent, Ohio. My undergrad studies were in rhetoric and communications. I thought I wanted to be an attorney in those days. So I thought that would be good to prepare myself in the rhetoric program. But during that I was selected to be one of 10 people off of the three Kent campuses to go to Washington, DC and spend six months work in a program called national issues. And so I went off for my first big stay in a large city. President Ronald Reagan was in the White House in those days, and I had two internships in between classes. One was with the American Security Council, which was focused on trying to bring Nicaragua into alignment with US policy. And then in the evenings, I would go and volunteer for an organization called the National Gray Panthers. And they were a senior citizen lobby. It was trying to work for healthcare reform and to make sure that Social Security stayed in place in this country. Michael Hingson ** 04:17 What city were you in? Was that Washington? Ron Stewart ** 04:19 It was in DC. Lived on 16th Street, just about four miles directly north of the Capitol, or of the White House, I should say, and wasn't the best part of town, but that's where student housing took place. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 04:33 yeah. So anyway, Ron Stewart ** 04:36 had that, it had that internship, or those internships, I should say, came back to Kent finished my degree. At that time, my mother had been moving through breast cancer, and so I went home to help her as she transitioned through that disease and ultimately passed away. So I stayed home and assisted her until she passed. And then I started looking around for work, and the first. First job that came up was as an executive director of a coalition of homeless service providers in Cleveland, Ohio. So at 21 I took the helm of a nonprofit. Had no clue what I was doing at all, and learned by the seat of my pants how to run a small agency. At that point in time, spent a number of years in Cleveland, did a master's degree there at case, Western Reserve University, did a master's in nonprofit organizations, which at that time was a pretty rare school. Now there are a number that number of them around the country and around the world, but mine took me through the law school, the social work school and the business school to come out with a combined degree that they called Master of nonprofit organizations. So Michael Hingson ** 05:45 did you study Peter Drucker? A lot? Ron Stewart ** 05:48 We did in California. I got to meet Peter Drucker. I went to a couple of his lectures. So it was kind of fun to go from somebody on a piece of paper to actually being in this presence for a lecture over at Claremont. Michael Hingson ** 06:02 And I'm saying he was quite a dynamic lecturer. I never got to meet him, although I've read some of his books. And then many people call him the father of nonprofit management, Ron Stewart ** 06:11 absolutely. So yeah. So I when I moved out here about I came out to California in the early 90s, or mid 90s, I should say, and decided then I wanted to pursue my PhD. So I went back to Ohio again, to another university in Cincinnati, Ohio, and started that program. And they allowed me to do a lot of my work remote, which was helpful, but I had to go and audit different lectures in different places, and that's where I went to one of Peters up in Claremont Colleges. So toward the end, he wasn't on faculty anymore. I think he just came in into guest lecturing at that point, but it was still quite nice to be in His presence. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 06:47 yeah. And I, as I said, I hear he was quite the lecturer. I met people who had the opportunity to hear him, and I understand as he got older, he he kind of looked frail, but as soon as he started lecturing, it all went away and the energy was high. Ron Stewart ** 07:03 That was exactly the experience I had. So, yes, exactly. Michael Hingson ** 07:08 So you got your masters, and then, and you were working at the nonprofit, and then the PhD, yep. Ron Stewart ** 07:16 And so the PhD is, is in a management vein as well. Although I looked at the outcomes of rest and renewal among nonprofit leaders, there is a foundation in Santa Monica, California that called the Durfee foundation that awards sabbaticals to nonprofit leaders in Los Angeles County. And so I studied what the outcomes were of about I think about 30 of them had gone through the program. Essentially, they get three months off of work, fully paid, and a budget to travel with. And the only rule they can't break is do not contact work. So you're supposed to get away from it, rest, relax, meet your family once again, and then come back to work rejuvenated. So that was the underpinning of my dissertation work. Michael Hingson ** 08:06 Do you think, conceptually speaking, looking at that, that it's really much different for the nonprofit sector than it is for the for profit sector, which is another way of saying, Should for profit companies, in one way or another, do the same thing for its executives, for their executives? You know, that's a Ron Stewart ** 08:28 very interesting question, and I do think that is a good strategy. My research actually brought some bad news to the foundation, and what we learned was most of the people who had gone on sabbatical, were founding directors. So they started their nonprofits. They grew them. They'd been there for years, and when they stepped away for a while, they realized one of two things, or maybe both, one being that the organization had outgrown them, and it needed a new leader to take it to the next level. And they also realized that in many ways, they were just tired of doing that line of work, and it was time for them to try and extend their wings and do something different. So a number of them actually came back to their organizations and ended up leaving not too long after completing their sabbatical. And that was not the original intended outcome, but in the end, it was good for both them and their organizations, because it helped to realign expectations on both sides and make sure that both remained healthy and were sustainable into the future. So I can't see why those same principles wouldn't be applied to a long standing for profit leader as well. Michael Hingson ** 09:37 Well, it seems to me that with with that kind of a program, so the people go away for three months, they have a chance to rejuvenate, they have a chance to think, and they come back and they decide that really, for whatever reason, it isn't the same for them anymore. But do they generally help a lot in looking for successors for their organization? Is the right person? Ron Stewart ** 10:02 Yeah, that was part of the program. So as those leaders stepped away for three months, it was hoped that a secondary person in the organization would rise up into the executive director role as an interim leader, and thus create some line of sustainability and some, you know, succession planning, more or less. But another thing we learned was most of those folks got into that big chair and didn't want it after they have three months being in it. So, you know, maybe it was somebody who was like a director of development, and suddenly they're in the executive director chair. Well, that's not what they were trained for, what their career path was. And it really highlighted that, you know, not necessarily are many of these organizations deep enough to have a bench of people who are ready and willing to move down a path of succession to replace an executive director? Yeah. So again, another good learning for the for the whole program. So Michael Hingson ** 10:55 you got your PhD, and then what did you do? Where? Where did you go? Well, Ron Stewart ** 10:59 I was still in California, and so even from my days in Cleveland, I've kind of hung out a shingle as a consultant. So I had a pretty strong practice in Southern California working with public agencies and nonprofit organizations on a range of management issues. Sometimes I would go in for extended periods of time and fill in for leaders who were ill or away or during transition. A few times I would be in there for a day or two. So I had a pretty good practice, and as the years came forward, I became less and less excited about traveling every day, especially in southern California traffic, and think getting on planes once a week, just wasn't it. So I started to morph my career a little bit. I moved out here to the Coachella Valley and 2005 I guess it was. It's been a number of years now, and really slowed down on national travel. So I kept my practice local, kept aligned with organizations that I have served for a number of years, and a few of them I've gone back in and provided long term assistance to. So right now, I'm with desert arc. We are an agency located in Palm Desert that serves individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Got about 700 clients under our care right now, and about 275 staff and I served as a consultant to this agency for about a decade, and then two years ago, they were undergoing a leadership change, and the CEO called and said, Hey, would you have any interest in talking to me about coming over and helping out a little bit more? So I ended up taking the role of executive vice president, and I've been working solely with this organization now for going on two years, and have really reduced my consulting practice to where I probably have a handful of folks that if they call, I will spend a weekend or so helping them with whatever challenge they might have encountered. Michael Hingson ** 12:55 But the real question is now, with what you're doing, you're having fun, Ron Stewart ** 13:01 I'm having a blast. So I'm age 58 I can see retirement in the windshield down the road there a little bit. So I'm really trying to spend the last few years of my working career solely focused and energized around trying to make sure this organization, which has been around this is actually our 65th anniversary this summer, on August 18, and I want to make sure that this organization is well positioned for another good 65 years after I'm long gone. Michael Hingson ** 13:30 Well, that's that is important to do, and it's always good when leaders of an organization think about that and really look forward to what, what's going to happen with leadership transition and so on. I learned a long time ago from one organization. We had a leadership seminar, and at the seminar, one of the questions the president of the organization asked was, What is the most important thing that we should be doing as leaders in this organization, and no one really got the answer, at least that he was looking for, but the answer was from his perspective, and I believe he's right. We should be looking for the next president of the organization, who's going to be the next person to lead it. And I think that's a very relevant and valuable thing to think about. Ron Stewart ** 14:21 Yeah, I totally agree with that. I've been with leaders who say that the first day they start a new job, they start looking for their replacement. And that follows the same, I think, logic you were just describing. You know, time moves fast. Good talent is hard to find, and if you can find someone who has the heart, the soul and the energy to do hard work, day in and day out in the nonprofit sector, wrap around them, teach them, get them ready, so that when you do decide to go on, you know, we've got a pool of people who may be positioned to take on those duties, Michael Hingson ** 14:57 and at the same time the other side. Of it is that when you find that talent of pool of people, you're bringing in people to the organization who are able to really help you move it forward as as you go. Anyway, Ron Stewart ** 15:12 absolutely, and I think that's a constant conversation here at Desert arc. Fact this week, this Wednesday, we begin a series of classes going to be taught by our local college, College of the Desert. They're coming on campus and doing an emerging leaders training. So this Wednesday and the next six Wednesdays, they're going to be on campus for six hours a day, working with our senior leadership to help them, you know, refine their leadership skills. Think about trends and practices that others have experienced that are working well, and encourage them to, you know, to grow beyond what they even do today. And as soon as that course ends, we're going to dip down to the next 20 leaders in the organization that we feel have potential, and they're going to go through a very similar conversation in through the summer, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 16:01 wow, um, it sounds pretty exciting, just because you're going to dive that deeply into it Ron Stewart ** 16:09 well, but it's to your point. You know, we've got to make an investment in our people. And even if they don't stay with desert arc, I hope that they go somewhere in this community. And when somebody says, Wow, where did you learn that? They go, Well, you know what desert arc invested in me a few years back? And that's where I picked that up. I would like them to stay here and keep their careers with us. And we do have folks who, I've got one gentleman who works with our clients, who's been here over 35 years. And so it's not uncommon to find folks at this organization have been here for a couple of decades. But again, we're all starting to age, and we've got to have some of those youngsters coming behind us that will pick up the torch and carry it forward. Michael Hingson ** 16:47 It is nice when you have somebody who stays and is committed to staying a long time in an organization, because they bring tribal knowledge and a lot of information to the organization into the job over the years that other people don't have, just because they don't have that historical preference. Ron Stewart ** 17:06 Absolutely, and I learn tons every day from a conversation back in the day we used to and those you know historical memories here have some very good information that help inform today's decisions. Michael Hingson ** 17:20 Did you think when you were in college that you were going to end up in the nonprofit sector? What did you want to do? Or was that always your goal? Ron Stewart ** 17:30 Well, as a kid, I didn't even know it existed. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 17:33 Well, there's that choice too harm. Ron Stewart ** 17:35 Yeah, you know when I when I thought, what was I going to be when I grew up, I wanted to be either a pilot or a physician, and in fifth grade, a teacher told me I wasn't smart enough to do either, and nobody had ever told me something like that. Actually love support. Well, it was one of those moments. It was life changing because I I didn't, of course, go home and talk about that because I was embarrassed, because nobody had ever everybody told me I was half me I was halfway smart. And so for this teacher to tell me that I couldn't do that, it was one of those life altering things as the years came forward. And again, I came from a small community, I learned that that teacher had a little bit of a beef with my mother for when they when they were in high school. And so I think that may that bearing may have been part of that uttering of the phrase that she used against me, but as a as a fifth grader, it was, it was kind of a challenging moment. So I deferred that, thinking, okay, then what do I do? And about that same time, they started administering tests that would help us determine what we would be best suited for. And as I remember, everything that I would light up on was things around human services. Didn't know what that would be, how that would turn out. But as the career started unfold, as life started unfold, and I went to college, and I had the experience working in DC, I really saw the power of what a nonprofit organization could do through that great Panther organization I mentioned earlier. Yeah, there really weren't nonprofits in my home community. We had a public health department, you know, that was an entity people knew about, but there really wasn't a network of nonprofits. So when I started to learn about it and the power of it, my days were juxtaposed. I would go to this sub arm of the White House, the American Security Council, that had about every amenity you could ever want, incredible people coming and going from the organization, and I literally had nothing to do. I would do menial tasks. I made coffee, I helped Hank curtains. One day I remember that because it was kind of a pain to do. And then in the evening, we would go into this dingy office with the National Gray Panthers, and there would be congress people coming and going and conversations. It's a little bit of fevered pitch once in a while. Out, and I'm like, What is going on here? And the founder of that movement, Maggie Kuhn, had a really good director in DC who took me under her wing and kind of just showed me what the world was like and how they were changing things, and introduced me to public policy, introduced me to lobbying, introduced me to networking. And that fire really took hold. So when I got back, finished my program at Kent, got that first job in Cleveland at that nonprofit organization, I think my fate was sealed. So here I am today. It is Michael Hingson ** 20:31 not surprising that you learned so much from the nonprofit sector, as opposed to the American Security Council, with all of the things that that you talked about, I mean there, I'm sure that that kind of information was there, but it's so different when you're dealing and addressing all of it from the standpoint of a nonprofit, where you have to put everything into action kind of immediately just to survive and keep the organization moving forward. Ron Stewart ** 21:00 Absolutely and actually, that dynamic is what drives my engine. Having a challenge makes my heart beat. And so to be in an agency or an organization that is without challenge has lots of resources that's just that's just not where I'm supposed to be, is great. Panthers still around. They are not so that was very, kind of fizzled out. Much of their work was absorbed by AARP. And I think even AARP is kind of struggling these days to get the following that it used to have. Michael Hingson ** 21:34 Well, yeah, my experience with and I have only been on sort of the edge to a degree, but I know AARP doesn't always address some of the issues of an aging population, like dealing with accessibility, and several of us have tried to have conversations with them about disabilities and inclusion, and that hasn't really gone very far and gone very well. If you look at the AARP magazine, they talk about travel and they talk about all the things that seniors can do, but you never hear them or see them talk about disabilities and the fact that we can do it too. I Ron Stewart ** 22:08 totally agree, and even with their advocacy efforts, I I don't take the magazine myself, because it just it feels to me as a waste of trees, because I are a West ways magazine with AAA, it feels like very similar content. Michael Hingson ** 22:23 Yeah, well, it is, and it's just unfortunate that they're not dealing with it. And it's it's sort of societal in nature, anyway, but AARP really ought to do a little bit better job, and probably would increase their membership if they did more programs dealing with the whole issue of accessibility and inclusion for persons with disabilities. But it's not what they do. Ron Stewart ** 22:47 I agree, you know. And back in the day when I was cutting my teeth, the senior lobby was a very, very powerful lobby in this country, yeah, and that seems I've lessened as the years have come forward. Michael Hingson ** 23:01 Well, it has some, I'm sure, but at the same time, I don't know, maybe it will will grow as we get more baby boomers who are aging, but I guess we'll see. 23:12 Yeah, I Michael Hingson ** 23:13 agree. So with all of the education in college and so on. Do you feel that, in general, all of that helped in terms of getting you positioned to do the nonprofit work, or was it just sort of maybe a little of it, like the American Security Council and Gray Panthers? Ron Stewart ** 23:35 That's a good question. I'm a lifelong learner. I love to learn, and I like to be mentored. And so I've had a great variety of mentors throughout my life, some younger than me, some older than me, some that are my peers, right? And I think that there's a lot to be gained from sharing, and so I've tried to avail myself of opportunities so that I could continue to learn outside of the classroom. I definitely enjoy classroom learning. The work I did at Case Western Reserve was interesting in that many of the people that I was in the same cohort with had come directly from an undergrad program into their masters and had never worked. And even though I don't been working maybe five or six years, my perspectives about reality often clashed with my my peers, because they were working from what textbooks said the world was like. And I always find the textbook world that I would read about just to always match up. So we had a lot of interesting dialog in those years. And so I found, you know, that program to be helpful. And again, going through those three schools, business, law and social work did expose me to a lot of theory, a lot of ways of thinking about problems. And how to arrive at solutions that I would never have had if I hadn't taken advantage of that opportunity. Sure, the PhD work, similarly, we had my cohort was scattered around the country, and we were required to come together about every three months and spend a week with each other, and so we would go to different parts of the country and engage in a variety of learning styles and tactics about a variety of issues. And that helped to inform me, as I did my core work and just again, exposed me to things that I would not have been exposed to. My cohort had a gentleman who was working in the oil industry in Texas, and I did not know anything about oil, so I got a little education about the reserves that were left on the planet and how those were attempting to be managed. I had a Art Therapist out of Norman, Oklahoma on my committee, and I did not know a thing about art therapy, and she spent most of her time working with sports athletes and helping them to process their emotions and their growth through art. And so you know that cohort alone, just the diversity of the disciplines that are assembled around me, made me a better person, made me have a deeper, richer understanding of the human experience. So you know, anytime I think I know a lot I like just expose myself to others and try to realize how much I don't know. Michael Hingson ** 26:28 Yeah, and you know, that's what makes it so fun, when you realize you know stuff, but there's so much you don't know, it makes life an adventure, which I've always liked. Yeah, yeah. It's the only way to go. We were talking earlier, and you mentioned that when they started giving tests you about what you should do. You were you kind of came out on the service. End of things, I remember my freshman geography teacher in high school. Mr. Campbell was talking once about all those and he said that they they gave him some tests, and they said that you're supposed to be a plumber because you weren't smart enough to be a geography teacher. He was a great geography teacher, I thought, but Ron Stewart ** 27:15 Well, they probably would have made a fortune in the plumbing business. Michael Hingson ** 27:18 He might have made a whole lot more money in the plumbing business, and I don't know, I lost track of him after high school, maybe, maybe for all I know he went back to it. Who knows, Ron Stewart ** 27:27 absolutely but yeah, mechanical mind. I you know, I can make a wrench work if I have to, but that is not my calling. Michael Hingson ** 27:36 I see that schools are starting to talk about reinstating s a t tests and so on in colleges for admission, and what they're finding is that that the SAT predictions are, for a variety of reasons, actually more accurate than just going alone on people's grades, because the grades tend to leave out some of the lower income or more disadvantaged minority groups? Ron Stewart ** 28:03 Absolutely. Yep. I Michael Hingson ** 28:05 totally agree. Which is interesting. Well, overall, why do you think that you are called to serve and to be in the service world? Ron Stewart ** 28:13 Well, I think that's a deep question. The culture I was raised in, very poor community, coal mining, trucking, those are pretty much the industries around us, and farming and nobody had much. And the community that our farmers located in the closest town to our farm had about 15 houses in it, and two churches, and that was the town. And then if we wanted to, you know, go to grocery stores or whatever, that was a 45 to an hour drive away from from the farm. Yeah, we're kind of isolated. And neighbors took care of neighbors. It was not uncommon for me when my dad was home on Saturdays, usually, and so we would, he would throw me in the truck, and we would be going and mowing neighbors lawns. He was in the winter time, be taking wood and coal for them, so that they had stuff to burn for their fuel. And I just grew up with that around me. And so I knew that you have to help others. That was just basic tenant that, you know, I was raised with, and I appreciate that. And so as I grew older and saw opportunities for me to try and plug in and help, I wanted to help as much as I could, wherever I could. The older I get, I found myself getting a little more jaundice, I guess, as as the years have have come forward, and I hope the in, in the sum of my life, and the total of it, one day, you know, there will be something here that was influenced improved, made better by my fingers being on it, so just being called to serve. You know, I've have for. Friends, a good friend of mine who we worked together in Cleveland, he midlife, decided to join or he was called again to become a Jesuit. So he left work and became a Jesuit. And he and I have kept good friendship ever since, and we talk a lot about being called to serve in his context and in mind. And so even though I can't say I had a divine intervention telling me I should be doing the work I did, it just does feel like it's part of my core and part of my fiber. And if I didn't have the opportunity to do this, I think I'd be a very unhappy human. Michael Hingson ** 30:36 Yeah, I appreciate that, and I can relate in a lot of ways. I think that you never know what seeds you plant or where you plant, seeds that that come back and help you, and you may never know, and that's okay, but still you're planting them, and they benefit people, as we all know absolutely, Ron Stewart ** 31:01 yeah, and I'm not looking for a granite marker with my name on it, that that has no appeal to me whatsoever. But you know, I would like to know that maybe some of my work will live on and the folks continue to benefit from it while after I'm done working, Michael Hingson ** 31:15 I'll bet you'll get some messages about that along the way somewhere. Ron Stewart ** 31:20 I do hope so. Michael Hingson ** 31:23 So you mentioned that you've had a lot of mentors. Tell me about some of your mentors who mentored you, what kind of people and how they've really impacted you? Ron Stewart ** 31:33 Yeah. So I think even in my youth, there was a number of families around our farm that did things with me, and I didn't realize they were doing those things with me, mainly women. They were either associated with the church I was raised in, or other farm families. And I began, I think at that point, to realize the value of learned wisdom. And so as I grew my career and landed in Cleveland. I must say, I was, I was a little full of myself when I became an executive director at 21 most of my my colleagues and friends that were still looking for work and wow, I was an executive director. You know, I made a whopping 14,000 if I'm remembering correctly. So, you know, very highly paid position. But once I got my large head deflated, people came into my life. I met one at one point in Cleveland. I was asked by the mayor of the Cleveland at that time, the county commissioners to lead up a project, this was in 1991 about what the community should be do, should do in response to the HIV epidemic, they needed somebody who wasn't in the politics on either side of the argument, and they wanted somebody neutral to come in and lead them through an 18 month study to develop a set of policy platforms that would help The community respond to HIV so without much knowledge on it, I jumped in with both feet and led a group of citizens and advisors through this 18 month process to come up with a set of recommendations. Those recommendations, some of them were meaningful enough that they we were able to change state law. We implemented a needle exchange program in Cleveland, and at that point in time, it did require a change in state law. We had to be able to get syringes in people's hands, and it was not legal to have syringes unless it was prescribed by a physician. So, you know, we did some earth changing things at that point in the at the time, and those people who were my mentors, my guiders, the advisory committee. Four of them were living with HIV. All four died during the process. During the 18 months we were doing that, all four of them passed away, and each of them had a pretty tough struggle as their days came to a close, the medicines that we have today for HIV did not exist. These folks led their lives with grace. They worked up until the last day they could work trying to change the conversation about being afraid of folks who were HIV positive. They came from all different walks of life, which was really helpful, as they told their story to others, and working with that kind of process and watching those folks die was extremely humbling. The process also introduced me to some other folks who, to this day, continue to be friends and mentors. I met a woman who, at that time she and her husband. Her husband was the head of largest law firm in Cleveland, and she had a company that worked with trailing spouses, who came into Cleveland to help them find jobs or meaningful daily activities in the community, and she and I became fast friends, and anytime she felt I was not doing the best I could, she was not shy at telling me that and helping me see it there. Path forward. And there were times in conversations where I leaned on her heavily to learn politics, to learn how to work groups of people, because I was still quite a young person in those days. And to this day, she is well retired. Now her husband's passed away, and back to think she's having a surgery here in a couple days, I need to check in with her, but she's still somebody that is has been involved in my life. She actually sat on my doctoral committee when I was working on a PhD. I could have two people from the outside sit on my committee, and she was one of them. So I've had folks like that that, you know, have very deep and rich moments with me, and then I think I have folks that I've met in an airport lobby and just struck up a conversation with and had an opportunity to learn something that they had as a pearl of wisdom that maybe I hadn't picked up. Many of the clients that I've been in service to in the organizations I've been at have been great teachers and great mentors. Here at Desert arc, if I'm having a rough day, one of my best strategies to recover from that is to walk back into our adult day program and sit down and join people in whatever activity they're doing. Not too long ago, over the holidays that we're doing a coloring contest, and I was invited to join in, and I was told by one of my clients that I don't color very well has a very truthful statement. I do not stay within the lines, but I think, you know, the work, working with this crowd, gives me a day. There's not a day that goes by a desert arc where I don't learn something from the folks we're in service to. So all combined, I consider everyone I've touched largely to be a mentor in one way or another. Michael Hingson ** 36:43 And I was just going to say that the reality is that mentors are where you find them. And as you said, being a learner, and I agree, we can learn so much from so many different people. And you know, people always underrate, I would say, to generalize the clients of of organizations like arc, because they say that, well, they're developmentally disabled. They don't they're not as bright as we are. They're also not nearly as shy as we are, either about telling you what they think absolutely Ron Stewart ** 37:17 right, and the piece that most of them live their life with. You know, they're just they don't stress so much about the politics of the day, the economy, those things just aren't always on the radar. And so to focus on the day and create a piece of art, to do some music, to socialize with their friends while they're here, it is just a wonderful experience. Yeah, and it's nice as us as staff, to dip in there and join on that once in a while. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 37:42 Isn't it cool? It is. It is so wonderful to be able to interact with human beings who are not like us and who aren't ashamed of who they are. Ron Stewart ** 37:54 Absolutely we're going to celebrate ours, uh, we do a a luncheon each February this year. It's coming up on this Thursday, and it's called our champions lunch. And we recognize a number of business partners and clients, clients of the year. And another little side journey I have. I owned an Italian restaurant here in the in the valley until very recently, and I had an employee there who came from Desert arc and had was last year's recipient of client of the year, and she has had such a successful story, she's completed a two year college degree, and she is now working in a childcare program, which was her goal, and she's staff in a in a daycare program every day now. And so when we tell that story, or when she tells her story in front of the news media and all of our associated folks who have gathered to hear it, it really breaks down those stereotypes. You know, the folks living with intellectual and developmental disability are wide ranging and their abilities and their skills, and to put one, if people put people into a box, into one box because of a title they have to carry, is just so unfair. Michael Hingson ** 39:08 Yeah, yeah. Did you sell the restaurant? We did. Yep, yep. Do you, do you still get, do you still get discounts? Just checking, I Ron Stewart ** 39:19 don't pretty bad about that. Fact about one of the pizzas recently, a pesto pizza with pepperoni, was my favorite. So I think I'm gonna have to go over and get one, and maybe I can squeeze a senior discount Michael Hingson ** 39:31 or something. Yeah? Well, 58 you know, to be able to justify that as being a senior, absolutely, I Ron Stewart ** 39:38 get that AARP magazine right that comes in the mail if I want to read it, so I should get a discount. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 39:42 So you, you clearly have accomplished a lot through all of the the nonprofit development work that you well, nonprofit work in general, not just development fundraising, but in in all that you've done. You, you really sound like you enjoy. Joy working at ARC. Why is that? Ron Stewart ** 40:04 And that is a hard one to answer. You know, on the space value, it's an organization with an incredible mission and to it doesn't take much to get behind it, right, to try and help folks be the best they can be, and overcome any hurdles that they have and that that's easy to jump behind. This organization has a lot of diversity. We are, as I mentioned, 200 to 73 people right now. We have two campuses, one here in the lower desert and then one up in the upper desert, in the Yucca Valley, Morongo Basin area. We run a massive transportation system. We've got about 30 busses on the road at any given time. We've got another 45 ish service vehicles out in the community doing our business services. We operate a recycling center that takes in metal products, and we also do a big shredding operation out of there. We have a janitorial division that goes out and performs janitorial services throughout the community. We have a landscape maintenance division. And then we also have a fulfillment division, so a group of folks who are ready to put together, oh, they have sometimes labeled water bottles. They have put together pieces of tables for computer stands. So if somebody has a contractor where they need an order fulfilled, they'll bring that work to us, and we do that. So the diversity of all of those things helps to keep my attention, but also just in the complexity of trying to pull all that together every year, bring enough money in to allow this organization to make it to the next year and thrive, those are challenges that are not easy, and so it's it's got enough diversity and enough challenge that I get up in the morning knowing that I need to be somewhere, Michael Hingson ** 41:45 which is cool. So what is it that you do? What is it that you do daily? What are your day to day responsibilities? As you said, I think executive vice president, yeah, Ron Stewart ** 41:55 so our CEO is largely focused on exterior connections. So out there, trying to make more donor connections and make sure that that group of people know about us and get involved with us. And then he manages the board of directors, which there are 11 individuals on, that Michael Hingson ** 42:11 always a challenge to manage a board Ron Stewart ** 42:13 Absolutely, and a lot of good people with a lot of, you know, good thinking, but all that takes a bit of corralling. So he turns over the business to me, so I'm in charge of everything under that so I have direct to me. I have nine direct reports that are senior leaders who are in charge of major business divisions here, and then we farm out leadership responsibilities under that group, and I try to keep my fingers in play with all of those individuals too, because again, it's just like we were speaking to earlier in the conversation. This is the group of folk that we have to nurture and bring up through this organization, so that we have a succession path in place for many of them. So I spend most of my days trying to keep conversations moving forward, communications tied together because I'll know something that another division has told me that the other one didn't know. So I try to tie that together and make sure that they're working together and then keep us all moving together through a harmonious structure. We went through a pretty extensive strategic planning process last fall, which is yielded a report that's 13 pages deep, that guides us through the rest of this year and most of 2025 and it really is a unifying place for all the leaders at Desert arc to gather around and make sure that we as a group of people are moving the needle for this organization, in addition to the work that each of us has to do Every day, so most of my day is consumed doing that stuff. Michael Hingson ** 43:44 So you're sort of the Chief Operations Officer, if you were to speak about it in terms of the parlance of a corporate not or a profit making corporate organization, that's exactly it. Yeah. Here's a question I'm always curious about. Well, I chaired a board, and was on a board for many years in Northern California. And one of the things that I learned there, and also when I worked at Guide Dogs for the Blind, which is a very large nonprofit of Northern covid, one of the things that people said is you always have to keep your administrative costs, your your overhead, under 10% because you need to have things go to the mission. One, is that still true? And two is that truly what a nonprofit should be. And the reason I asked that question, in part, is I saw once a video that a guy gave and produced to work for a nonprofit organization, and his argument was, keeping it under 10% doesn't allow you to spend the money that you can spend to make more money. Ron Stewart ** 44:44 And I would agree with that that formula was born out of a conversation at the United Way level, many, many, many years ago, and it was decided then that that was the right measure, you know, that 10% or less should be used. And. And I think many of us do subscribe to that, but not out of choice, but out of simple there's no other way to do it. Most of the if a donor gives money to our organization, they're not too excited to think they're paying for the accountant, right? They would rather see, you know, help us with a project we needed a new electric forklift in our shredding center, and so we found a donor last week who was willing to give us 25,000 toward $50,000 purchase. But it's a lot more exciting to get around what that forklift is going to do for us. Other than all the keys on the QuickBooks application, they count my press all day, right, right? So we actually run a very lean ship, and I wish I had more revenue where I could have a deeper administrative team. I've had to make some sacrifices in where we spend our money, and I brought a skilled person on this year who's become our compliance specialist. There are so many things that we are regulated by that we need to hold true to, and we needed somebody to help us manage that North Star process. So I've had to invest in a compliance person. That is, for some might be considered a luxury. For me, it's a business necessity, because, again, we have to safeguard this organization so that it remains viable for as long as it can, and compliance is absolutely critical. Right in today's labor market, we cannot pay people enough people are leaving work here to go work in fast food, because they can make $2 more an hour than the next month, than you than you can working in our industry. Yeah. So last year, we've invested $1 million in salaries. And while that is a big number for me to play with and to work, it wasn't a big number to the staff who received it, because it ended up being a couple of dollars here and there in their hourly wage, and they should be paid so much more, yeah, but the way the funding is structured in the state does not allow us to make enough money to pay them more. Doesn't mean that they're not valuable, not that they're worth it, but it is just a condition of how wages are paid and what is perceived as valuable or more valuable, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 47:20 What would you like your legacy to be from Desert arc? Ron Stewart ** 47:24 Well, my our big one is we're going to build some housing. This is the Palm Desert campus. Is a fairly significant size campus, and at the very back of it, there's a landlocked chunk of land that has sat fallow forever. And last year, I restarted the conversation with our city, and at the same time, they were needing to develop some affordable housing, and I was passionate about housing, and so we struck up a deal. So we are moving forward on constructing a 40 unit complex at the very back of this property, where we sit in Palm Desert. It will be brand new construction. Dirt should turn in April of 25 and occupancy be starting somewhere in February of 26 so I want to see you know that housing created in here and people who are struggling to have good, safe, decent, affordable housing be able to access those 40 units. That will be a nice little thing to see before I retire. Michael Hingson ** 48:26 That'll be exciting. Well, speaking of retirement, what are your plans when you do retire? Whenever that is what, what's next for you? 48:33 Well, are Michael Hingson ** 48:35 you even thinking about that yet? Ron Stewart ** 48:36 Well, we are so okay. My husband is from Veracruz, Mexico, and as we both age, he wants to kind of go home and well, what does that mean? So I think in retirement, we will split our time between Mexico and here. I don't think it'll be Veracruz. I can't deal with the humidity and the heat, so I have to be a more temperate climate. But I think we'll find ourselves in Mexico most of the year, and maybe keep a house here, or we might go to Mexico full time in retirement, I would be thrilled to maybe teach a class or two at a local college and then go to an orphanage and see if I could help out with kids a few days a week. That would be a great way to spend my retirement days. Well, you Michael Hingson ** 49:19 do put up with a fair amount of heat where you are now, just not the humidity Ron Stewart ** 49:22 was a dry heat, as they famously say, right? Yeah, yeah, I can, I can put up with the dry heat, but humidity just kills me. So even at Christmas time, Veracruz is hot and humid. So summer, I just wilt. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 49:36 I hear you. I've lived in two different places on the east where, in the summer, lots of humidity, and I would prefer, and do prefer the dry heat to the humidity, but I also I really have the choice prefer a little cooler, which is why an air conditioner with solar power here in the house is a good way to go. Yeah. Ron Stewart ** 50:00 I admire your thinking. Michael Hingson ** 50:02 So we, we hope. Well, I know your schedule is tight, so I'm going to go ahead and and thank you for being here. Are there any kind of last things that you'd like to say or insights you'd like to provide for everyone listening? Ron Stewart ** 50:16 Yeah, just that. I really appreciate this opportunity. You know, life is so rich, and for you to take the time and talk to people about what makes them who they are, I think, is a very powerful force, human voice, the human condition. Are things that need to be shared. And I think a lot of people feel lonely in many different ways, whether they get into a career where they get a little bit stifled, or they're in relationships that aren't as rewarding as they would like them to be, and I think the more they hear about others and see what possibilities are out there, and their horizons are expanded, that I hope we help lift up each other. And I think the work you're doing through these podcasts goes toward that end. Michael Hingson ** 50:55 Well, they're a lot of fun, and I would hope that I learn at least as much as anybody else when we do them, and it doesn't get any better than that. So I'm I'm glad to do it, and I love having fun doing it as well. Well. Cheers Ron Stewart ** 51:09 to you, Michael. Michael Hingson ** 51:10 Well, thank you for being here. If people want to reach out to you and learn more about desert arc and so on, how do they do that? Absolutely, Ron Stewart ** 51:16 so they could visit us on the web at desertarc.org or anybody is welcome to call me at 760-404-1360, and I'd be more than happy to help however I could. Michael Hingson ** 51:31 Well, I'm sure you've got a lot of insights, and I hope people will do that. So thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening. Excuse me, I should say that, right? I want to thank all y'all for listening. I've spent enough time in the South that I can talk at sometimes, but thanks very much. We really appreciate it. If you'd like to comment on today's episodes, please email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast page, www.michaelhingson.com/podcast and Michael Hinkson is m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n.com/podcast, please give us a five star rating wherever you are listening to this. We value that, and we value your input and your comments and Ron for you and everyone listening. If you know of anyone who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please bring them on. We are always looking for more people to talk with and have a chance to learn and converse with. So if you know anyone, please let us know. So again, Ron, I want to thank you for being here, and we really appreciate your time today. Ron Stewart ** 52:36 All right, take good care of yourself. You Michael Hingson ** 52:44 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.