Episode 252 – Unstoppable Criminologist and Performance Coach with Jaclynn Robinson

Unstoppable Mindset

Jaclynn, (Jackie), Robinson has her roots in Oklahoma, but also has studied here in California and has her doctorate from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology. Although he has worked at a few jobs over her life she discovered that her real passion resides in coaching.

Today she coaches organizational teams as well as individuals. She has clients throughout the world.

During our conversation she offers some great life lessons and thoughts we all can use. Like many with whom I have talked on the Unstoppable Mindset Jackie encourages people to take time to let their mind slow down to better put our daily lives into perspective. She practices this while walking, but she also suggests other methods we can use to connect with ourselves. Speaking of connecting, Jaclynn is a strong believer in the fact that creating a circle of friends, or forming a team, is immensely important to our well-being.

About the Guest:

Jaclynn Robinson is a Southern California and Nevada based criminologist and international psychologist, specializing in organizations and systems. In the corporate sector her areas of expertise are in operational efficiency and cultural intelligence. Organizations operating domestically or in the global market gain critical insight into factors that affect their success, such as sociological conditions, corporate culture, regional influences, and the impact of global phenomena on individuals and groups. In addition to her work with organizations, Jaclynn’s passion for business and psychology is present in her work as a performance coach for individuals, business builders, and leaders. As a coach, she serves as a thought partner and guide to help individuals overcome challenges, achieve goals, and think through the unknowns. In a pre-pandemic world, Jaclynn devoted her time behind the prison walls, coaching the incarcerated, better known as “entrepreneurs-in-training,” to help them think through unique and feasible business ideas that could be realized upon reentry. Her interest in raising awareness and bettering the lives of vulnerable communities also led to Jaclynn’s research work on the lived experiences of Syrian refugees during her doctoral studies. Her research work has been presented at the London School of Economics “Middle East Centre” and the International Political Science Association’s World Congress on “Borders and Margins.” Jaclynn earned a bachelors degree in criminology from the University of Oklahoma, a masters degree in psychology from Pepperdine University, a master of advanced studies degree in criminology, law and society from the University of California-Irvine, and a doctoral degree in international psychology from The Chicago School of Professional Psychology. Jaclynn is an Associate Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation and a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach.

Ways to connect with Jaclynn:

Website: www.jaclynnrobinson.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaclynnrobinson/ Instagram Handle: drjaclynnrobinson Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjaclynnrobinson/ X: @NineMusesProd

About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.

Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children’s Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association’s 2012 Hero Dog Awards.

https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/

accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/

https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/

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Transcription Notes:

Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi, Lee there once again, welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Glad you're with us. Today, I have the honor and pleasure of speaking to Jaclynn or sometimes we even call her Jackie. And Jackie is really kind of a cool person for a lot of reasons. Because Jackie Robinson is among other things, a graduate of UC Irvine where I graduated, and I ended up getting my master's degree in physics without blowing up the University. She came along a lot later than I did. Yeah. And she studied law and criminology and other things. So I you know, my thing statute of limitations is gone. So I'm saying I was worried there for a second. Laughter Yeah, we won't, not too much anyway. But she has a fascinating story. She is an executive coach, among other things, she has helped a lot of organizations and people with a variety of issues in terms of moving forward. And she'll tell us about that. Before the pandemic she also worked with incarcerated people. And I love what you describe them as, as what was it pre or early entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs and train entrepreneur entrepreneurs and training? Yes, there you go. Yes. So Jackie, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Jackie Robinson ** 02:50 Thank you. Thank you. 02:52 Well, Jackie Robinson ** 02:53 good to be here. Michael Hingson ** 02:54 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Well, tell me a little bit about you sort of maybe the early Jackie growing up and all that sort of stuff where and all the good stuff to lay the foundation for whatever comes later. Jackie Robinson ** 03:06 Yeah, all the goodies. Well, I was born and raised in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I am a sooner so apologies to any Cowboys fans. We have a big rivalry in Oklahoma between Oklahoma State and Oklahoma University. And I think from you know, quite an early age, I knew I was going to be involved with people, places and animals. I loved culture growing up I was all about saving the dolphins Saving the Rainforest you know sign up to all of those magazines as an eight year old had them all on my wall wanted to adopt every child overseas and wanted to explore every country overseas. So flash forward to now and it was no surprise that international psychology criminology and sociology became my you know, kind of my my anchors in life for how I support people and travel the world and all of that good stuff. Michael Hingson ** 04:08 So you went and you got your undergraduate studies where University Jackie Robinson ** 04:12 of Oklahoma University of Oklahoma ology so Michael Hingson ** 04:15 that was that's, that's fair criminology why criminology? Jackie Robinson ** 04:21 I am so fascinated by the criminal mind. And just how repeat you ever want Michael Hingson ** 04:28 to be one just to see how it worked or No, no, go. Jackie Robinson ** 04:32 I'm so boring. I'm so boring. There's not speeding tickets. There's not much to find. I'm just the boring person. But I've always been so fascinated by those that have just turned to crime, whether it's nature versus nurture. And so I really was interested in actually Homeland Security or the CIA and becoming a spy or a forensic crime scene. An investigator, so that was kind of the path I thought I was gonna take. And psychology was where I started shifting into that master's initially so that I could, you know, shape up for that. And then I decided, you know, I don't think this world is for me towards performance coaching. Michael Hingson ** 05:20 So what kind of work did you do after college? Jackie Robinson ** 05:23 I was a behavioral therapist or qualified mental health counselor, or professionals what they would call them for juvenile delinquents. Dad, I worked for a city attorney's office as well. So the juvenile population was where I spent my early years of time. And then was in a PhD program for forensic psychology, loved everything about the materials and the course and you know, the courses. But it was, you know, it's so serious, and you spend the entirety of your days behind the prison system. And, you know, being on site here, and there is one thing, but going there pretty regularly to run forensic psychology assessments was something different. So that's when I started to kind of switch gears to say, What else might there be for me to, to get involved in? Michael Hingson ** 06:19 And so how did that lead to what you do today? Jackie Robinson ** 06:23 Yeah, I found an international psychology PhD program, and all the lights and bells and whistles went off, and it was just kind of like a low this is, this is your sign of what you should do, what you should be involved in. It was everything I got to study, you know, cultures across the world, I love traveling. It's it's thinking about the individual, it's thinking about us, as we relate to the environment around us from that collective side. And from there, I just hit the ground running. So it's, it's much more positive psychology focused and cultural psychology focused. Michael Hingson ** 07:05 So kind of what does that mean? Exactly? Yeah. Jackie Robinson ** 07:08 It means the way that I've described that, especially with the pandemic, international psychology comes in and studies individual and collective essentially studies global phenomena to say, how does this impact us from an individual level and then a collectivist or societal level? And then how do we make sense of it and support people through it, whether it's an actual culture, it could be a war torn population, it could be a global pandemic, it could be a pandemic, that only one country might be, you know, observing at that point in time, but it could also be within the organization organizations are kind of a person and itself, if we look at it as a living, breathing, being, with the people that are incited and engagement and their performance and their well being. And so it's just really allowed me to kind of take off to say, Okay, how do I want to support cultures overall. And so I worked with the refugee population as part of my doctoral work, and then also just within organizations. So that's what kind of got me into management, consulting and working with a global management firm and supporting organizations that want to see their their people thrive, versus survive. Michael Hingson ** 08:31 Yeah, which is an interesting distinction, and important ones is, we all we all talk about surviving, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're thriving very well, does it? Jackie Robinson ** 08:42 No. And so many people are hurting, especially after the pandemic. So it's, that's there's a lot of fulfillment and seeing people really identify with their purposes, or find a new purpose, and then just you see them open up in blossom. Michael Hingson ** 09:00 Well, you You did mention that you've worked with the refugee population. I think I read that you worked with Syrian refugees during your, your PhD studies. Tell me more about that, if you would, that sounds like it would be very fascinating in a lot of ways. Jackie Robinson ** 09:15 It was extremely fascinating. I worked with them. Well, when I was doing my dissertation, the Syrian Civil War was still pretty early on. And so I received a lot of nose for my dissertation board at that time of how it was going to access the culture. Because it was pretty difficult, there was not really going to be an opportunity to go into Syria, that it was Where are a lot of Syrian refugees. And then what might be an organization that I can partner with to help me find them identify those refugee centers and hold interviews. So initially, I was looking at Switzerland but I was able to find some really great support with Syrian refugee center and nonprofit in Berlin, Germany. So I did my research in Berlin. And I want to say it was 2014. When I had started conducting my research, it was 2012. So it was really early about a year or so into the Syrian civil war, but absolutely fascinating. And I, I've loved every minute of connecting with them and working with them. Michael Hingson ** 10:26 Now, why Syria and Syrian refugee specifically. So Jackie Robinson ** 10:30 this is where you'll see the criminology tie in, because initially, my refugee work was. So at UC Irvine, I, in my criminology law in society thesis, I was focusing on the learned behaviors of terrorism. So flash forward to my PhD program, I wanted to focus on interviewing more of the types of criminals involved, I wanted to have more of my studies based on terrorism, and the Syrian civil war. And I had someone, one of my professors say, I don't know how you're going to get access to Guantanamo, or any of these facilities where you might, you know, be able to interview them. But I had been reading books at the time, and it had been done. So you know, unstoppable mindset, I'm like, Hey, we've got this, there's there's always a way in. But he said, Why don't you switch gears and start to think about those that are impacted by terrorism. Instead, the populations impacted. And that's when the Syrian refugee population was, you know, really big. And we were seeing it in the news all the time. And so I started to switch gears into that. So Michael Hingson ** 11:45 did you ever get a chance to actually interview criminals? Or people who were on that side of terrorism? Or did you mainly just deal then with the other side? Jackie Robinson ** 11:54 Yep, I just dealt with the other side, refugees. And I was already at UC Irvine, they had a really wonderful program where you could work with refugees that had that were living within the Southern California area. So working with kids on art therapy, supporting families with mentorship, helping them learn English, helping them with just their day to day, I was already involved with Syrians through a UCI program. And so it just made a lot of sense with everything that was also happening in the war, to use that as a population, because I really just started to feel a connection to that to that group. Michael Hingson ** 12:35 So what kinds of things did you learn from interviewing them and talking with them? Because you're looking at you, certainly, you're looking at terrorism from from one side of it, and I appreciate that, but what did you learn? Or what kind of conclusions did you draw? Jackie Robinson ** 12:49 From the refugee side, I mean, really, speaking of unstoppable mindset, what tended to support their resilience was family connection, family is so strong, and so having cell phones, which many of them were able to have in Berlin, to be able to connect with their families back in Syria, was a way to manage anxiety, or manage depression or feeling disconnected. In the, in the refugee centers where they would stay, you'd have a range of different refugees, it might not just be all Syrians, you might have Palestinians, you might have other folks in there as well. And so they would start to create their own, you know, specific communities within a refugee facilities so that they could feel more connected with one another. They could lend support, they could share bicycles. And so that was really big was seeing how much the family connection means. There's also just a lot of resiliency and gratitude that they had four countries that would take them in. So they one thing that came up very strong was this idea of wanting to give back to the community that welcomed them in the wanting to try to learn German in this case as fast as they could, so that they could acquire a job, once they, you know, were allowed, so that they could give back, those that were already in college would have a difficult time because they were, you know, studying Arabic, they were fluent in Arabic, but now you're going to a German university, and you've got to be at the collegiate level of knowing the German language. So if they were studying to be a vet, or a physician, or, you know, a psychologist, they would be backtracked quite a bit, but there was still that level of gratitude and hunger to want to learn the language and give back as soon as they could. So it was really heartfelt, it was very heartwarming, actually, to see the level of resilience that they had. Michael Hingson ** 14:53 And I'm sure you found people who were all over the spectrum or in different parts of the spectrum from you very tenacious, unable to move forward to some who maybe weren't quite so successful at it. Jackie Robinson ** 15:06 And most of that was just based on the admin process of the paperwork and the filing that has to take place all the checks and balances once you become a refugee within Germany. But you know, what, what status you're in, if you're asylum, if you were able to be, you know, kind of fully enveloped into the community where now you could hold a job and so many felt like they were in that sense of purgatory. You're kind of half in half out because you're safe. But you're, you're not allowed yet to get that, that job. So they might be trying to pick up language skills or something along the way, but, you know, they're just waiting on that letter to say, Okay, you're approved. You've got full status here. Michael Hingson ** 15:49 Yeah, it's always tough to be in limbo, not know what's going on. Well, so you did that. You got your PhD in you said, I think 2014 2017 2017 Okay. So it was another three years after? Yeah. Okay. Jackie Robinson ** 16:05 That's about four years, three, three and a half years. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 16:08 Now, it's seven years later. So what did you do after you got your PhD? Jackie Robinson ** 16:15 I joined a well, a brown that same time I was, I was double degree. So I received my, my degree from UC Irvine at that time, my, my master's degree before that I had gotten a Master's at Pepperdine in psychology. And so once I was done with UC Irvine, and I was just starting to wrap up the Ph. D. program, I joined a global management firm that has this high focus on positive psychology. So I work with Gallup. And I love that I just embrace this idea that we're a part of a community. And that they they focus so much on positive psychology now taking a strengths based approach, focusing on engagement, focusing on the well being of others. And so I just joined, I would say, my, I think it was my third year, my second or third year in my PhD program, and I've been here since Michael Hingson ** 17:17 well, yeah, I would say I kid of Jackie Robinson ** 17:21 coaching, facilitating, working with a range of different industries. Yeah, so that's, that's where I'm at. I feel like I always have my hands on something right. Now, whenever I can do some virtual webinars and do some performance coaching with those, now those that are released from the prison system, and are in those post incarceration, mentor programs, that's a lot of where I spend my time now. When I was still living in California, I would also go to the prison systems there. Unfortunately, they're not in the Nevada area yet. So I do I do that work virtual. So that's one of the things that occupy my time. Michael Hingson ** 18:02 So what did you do? In the in the prison system? You obviously worked there and felt it was worthwhile? What did you do there? Yeah, Jackie Robinson ** 18:11 well, it was more volunteer, but we'll go in for about 12 hours. Maybe it's nine. It's kind of that it's like an eight to 8am to 6pm type of day, somewhere around there. And, you know, we we go in, we drop off our cell phones, we leave everything and we spend the day working with the incarcerated or going through an entrepreneurship program through to five Ventures is the the program that I'm a part of. And they've partnered with Baylor University. So Baylor provides entrepreneur certificates. It's an application process. So the incarcerated, but we call entrepreneurs and training, apply to be a part of the program. So these are folks that are really wanting to change their life around and get that that mentorship. For some, this is the first, you know, certificate they've ever received. So they're graduating. Once they get out of the program, they truly get the cap and gown, and we're all there to celebrate with pizza and brownies, and their family comes and it's a big deal. But it's the way I describe it is it's the shark tank for prisons. So this program is one where they go through business courses. And within that duration, they're also starting to curate a business idea that they could do can't be a storefront since that would require too much capital. So it's just thinking of a business idea that they could run on their own with minimal funding that they feel experienced in and then they have, you know, business leaders, business coaches, others that are you know, just across industry, we volunteer and go in and help them tweak those ideas and help them think through those ideas and Then there's a vote at the end. And there's monetary rewards for first, second and third place winners. So their business? Michael Hingson ** 20:13 Did you ever follow up or follow through with any of them when they came out of the prison system that ended up starting a business and were successful? Or do you know? Jackie Robinson ** 20:24 Yes, yes, they have cohorts that go through. And so I was with one, one cohort for quite a bit pre pre pandemic, I would visit them in there a couple of times, and then I was there for their graduation. And they're always like, Oh, you came back, thank you. And then after they can go into that post monitor, mentorship program, so they've got their idea, once they are released from the prison system, that's when they can really implement that idea. And they've got us on the back end as well to support with that mentorship. And they're able to do PowerPoint presentations, virtually, to share out what their business is to share links to their website to their product, and then we can support them. And either say, hey, we want to bring you one, we'd love to have you in partnership for, you know, X company, or if we know they would be great for company, we can bring them on and suggest them, we can buy their products. And so we really are there to support and the recidivism rates, in terms of just their return back to prism is incredibly low. I want to say it was that 94 95% With this program, the state the state out, yeah, that stay out. They've got the skills, they just were always, you know, maybe they weren't given the rights. You know, the, they have the skills, but what's a great way of putting it, they didn't have the right role models. Yeah, is the word I was looking for, to help them curate and cultivate those skills in a way that could be meaningful and legal. They just, you know, had to scrap by oftentimes based on their backgrounds. Yeah. So yeah, now they've got the positive mentorship to say, hey, let's take that and use your marketing use your your, you know, ways with money in a way that's very legal and strategic, Michael Hingson ** 22:19 and self confidence. Yes. Yeah. Because Jackie Robinson ** 22:23 some of them, you know, have have weren't praised. They don't know what they're great at. They weren't told they were great, based on how they were raised. And so having people that come in and support them and have confidence in them is huge. And for those that are there for life, it just, it warms my heart, because those that might have received life in prison, they'll go through the course, but they're there, you know, forever through all of these cohorts as the lifelong, you know, Yoda Yeah, they still they found purpose within the prison, which I love Michael Hingson ** 22:58 to help teach and reinforce. Absolutely. So you did that. And now do you work for a company now? Or are you running running your own business Jackie Robinson ** 23:09 i still volunteer with defy so I just do it more virtual now that I'm based in Vegas and don't have the the easier access to drive to the prisons. They'll do the in prison programs. And then they have the post release programs. So used to be a part of both now I do more post release work with Gallup. And then I'm on an advisory board, where I support minority Collegiate Scholars as we think about a talent pipeline and how we continue to funnel them through. So yeah, I would say there's a lot of just different things that if Michael Hingson ** 23:50 you're running your own business in Jackie Robinson ** 23:51 business, yep. And that's part of the advisory that I do with the with that talent pipeline. That's, yeah, it's fun. I, I, before Gallup, and before my PhD program, I started my company, because I was doing a lot of on air consulting, in the field of criminology and psychology, back when chi for and in spite TV weren't network and they were looking for someone that was that was, you know, not a Dr. Phil. Someone that was of the millennial generation growing up, but had the wherewithal to just explain some of the stories that they would air on TV. So I worked a lot with story producers, whenever they were doing a crime story or something related to mental health, and I'd bring in that science piece. So that's where I said, you know, I think there's something more here and that's where my company derived from was being able to speak on criminology and psychology within the entertainment industry. Michael Hingson ** 25:00 There's a fair amount of that that goes on to. There's a lot. Yeah. Jackie Robinson ** 25:05 And it was a perfect marriage because there was always a very dramatic kid. I liked putting on plays there. You didn't? Yeah, I thought acting is it for me, but I love entertainment. I love how you can tell stories and see a script come to life. I worked in international film sales and production for quite a bit crime thrillers, Psych, Psych thrillers. And so, you know, having that opportunity to work with story producers and be an honor expert was just kind of a great marriage of the social sciences and media. What's Michael Hingson ** 25:38 the most rewarding factor? Would you say of your work in terms of with engaging with your audience and so on? Jackie Robinson ** 25:47 Hmm, seeing seeing their potential, just flourish. I love when people either come to me, whether it's an organization or an individual, and they're saying, you know, this is, this is the problem we see, this is where you might need some support. And you see them go from maybe struggling or just surviving, as I had mentioned earlier, to thriving, because you help them start to break down. What is it that gives you purpose? You know, how do we make that a priority? How do we eliminate or delegate, or even automate those things that are more draining to you, or feel like drudgery you start to see their anxiety or their depression start to decrease when they they start to just ground themselves and who they are and their value system and things that give them a lot of joy and energy. And then when that's happening at the organizational level, it's just larger, you know, it's that larger impact that you see across the board. So I think that's what thrills me because it's, it's the outcome that individuals or an organization gets out of doing the work, which is feeling like they can thrive. And I'm such a champion for wellbeing, I think it's so important that people focus on, you know, what it is that gives them energy, and we know how closely that ties to your mental health, your spiritual health, to your physical health, to everything. Michael Hingson ** 27:22 How did you come to really be so interested in well being and kind of formulate the position, you just stated with that? Jackie Robinson ** 27:33 I think I almost came across that by accident, because I was so interested in the criminal mind, I was so interested in just psychology, at Pepperdine. My, my master's is in really that general clinical psychology. So it's been my foundation. But in performance coaching, once I got into management consulting, I started to see something different in the way that you could, you know, connect with individuals and see that spark in them come back to life, or taking something they're already great at, and then just, you know, driving them more towards excellence, and seeing the, the excitement and energy or, you know, happiness in their voice was, was a pleasure. So I think I stumbled on it by accident, because I never saw myself becoming a coach, and executive coach or performance coach. But it's, it's very fun. Michael Hingson ** 28:32 Well, there you go. And you seem like you're, you're well put together, you're well grounded in all of it. But you must have had some, I would assume challenging experiences in your life. And what what kind of experiences have you had and what did you perhaps learn from them? Like, what kind of valuable life lessons have you learned from your own challenges? Yeah, Jackie Robinson ** 28:54 I probably started to reflect a lot more in psychology, because you have to go to counseling when you're in a psychology program. Just as every coach needs a coach, every counselor psychologist needs a counselor psychologists, you start to do a lot of unpacking men. Um, and I suffered from panic disorder starting in high school where I would just have panic attacks, and they would come out of nowhere and you catastrophize and think, you know, the sky is falling. So I've always had anxiety and been more of an anxious person, and medication wasn't the way to go to be on daily medication. I'm, you know, I'm a fan of it, when it needs to be daily for people but for panic disorders, that just wasn't the case. It was more overmedicating for me. So it was looking for other avenues. You know, what can I do to you know, start to decrease anxiety and increase well being? Working out was a way to do that connecting with nature and just going on hikes or walking my dog in the park, allow me to do that. I'm sitting down, when you have panic attacks, whenever you sit and you feel the ground, you ground yourself because it takes your brain away from catastrophizing and you start to focus on Oh, the ground is cold, or the ground is a rug. So you focus a lot on touch, or, you know, worry stones that people might might carry around. So there was a lot of different ways to support well being. So I started thinking about it, that didn't have to do with medication, in my case, and so that was always a big challenge that, you know, I had from high school all the way up through, I mean, even now, but I rarely have panic attacks. At this point, I can count, count them on one hand, how many I have a year because of the other systems that I put in place. I think what triggered it from the workplace standpoint where I focus so much on well being to support challenging situations, was with the pandemic, because that everything but the kitchen sink was thrown at us from 2019 to 2022, I think. And you could just tell the entire world was hurting. And to be able to reach people individually through coaching was just wonderful. And then I had my own personal experience that I'd had to reflect on of how I've come through challenging times. And how well, a focus on well being helped me through it, and specifically, you know, the multitude of ways that you can support well being. That was what really, I think helped me go, oh, there's, this is where I want to spend a lot of my time in the workplace is focused on, you know, a strengths based approach to supporting people and well being. Michael Hingson ** 31:53 So what kind of tricks? What kind of life lesson did you learn from having the panic attacks? And just dealing with all that? You came out of it? What did you gain from it? Yeah. Jackie Robinson ** 32:06 More confidence and being able to manage through it, you know, to be able to take the take, take the reins, so to speak, because when you're feeling anxiety, you don't feel like anything is going to work out. But for me, knowing that I could have some automatic systems in place. If I have a panic attack, it's really easy to say, when did I last workout? have I eaten regularly throughout the day? Or have I, you know, basically starved? Do I have more on my plate than necessary? Are the things on my plate, something that would allow me to thrive? Or are these things that drain me of my energy? Have I gotten think time because I'm someone that likes to just disconnect? And so there's kind of that list I can run through as a checks and balances to say yes, yes, no, no up, here's where the problem is. So I learned how to better manage it, which gave me more obviously, self awareness, but even self confidence tackle challenges as they come along. Michael Hingson ** 33:07 You can always get a puppy dog to help you Jackie Robinson ** 33:09 and a dog and I have a dog who was registered as an emotional support animal. I'm really bummed that airplanes stopped supporting that because people were bringing birds and pigs and pigeons and whatever else. But um, yeah, he's a great help pets are so wonderful. What is he? He is a chihuahua terrier mix? Ah, yeah. He's well Michael Hingson ** 33:35 beyond the problem with the whole airplane thing is, of course that, you know, with Americans with Disabilities Act, the rule is that the the animal has to be trained, and technically emotional support. animals aren't trained. But But the issue is really what you just said, which is, people would just bring anything on. And so many people would bring their dogs on, on airplanes and say, their emotional support for me. Yes. And, and they just misbehaved and just did all sorts of things, and nobody would deal with it. Jackie Robinson ** 34:06 Yes, yes. It's, it goes back to the, you know, the, the old saying, right, where it just takes one person Yeah, to take advantage of the system, and then nobody gets it anymore. And you go, Ah, so Well, Michael Hingson ** 34:20 it really made it really, it also made it tougher for us with train service animals. Because she Yeah, now the airlines make us jump through all sorts of hoops just to take our dogs on on airplanes. And I think it's something that the airlines promoted a lot. But rather than recognizing there are a whole lot better ways to deal with it. They've made it very convoluted and complex. You know, and from my perspective, it doesn't matter whether it's a service animal or an emotional support animal, if it's well behaved, who's going to notice the problem is so Then he went on who worked there were not. And even I have seen, although not on an airplane, but I've seen legitimately trained service animals that have misbehaved. And the bottom line is that you can't just take your guide dog in somewhere if your guide dog misbehaves. So you noticed the same sort of thing, but it is it is tougher and so many people now go off and they buy these bests and so on online and Oh, my dogs and emotional support animal. Yeah, well, that doesn't mean anything anymore. And you brought it on yourself. Yes. Jackie Robinson ** 35:32 And so pay your $150 each way to take Michael Hingson ** 35:38 it as a pet and yeah, 35:40 I Yeah. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 35:43 I have. I've had a couple of I've had a couple of my guide dogs growled at by other dogs on airplanes. And fortunately, my dogs just kind of go give me a break and lay down and put their head down. But still, it's there. And it happens, which is unfortunate. Jackie Robinson ** 36:00 It is. I love dogs, Michael Hingson ** 36:03 but we haven't had we haven't had to deal with a peacock on an aeroplane yet. Jackie Robinson ** 36:09 No, although I'm not seeing the German shepherds that just have their own seat. I just seen a dog head. It's the most. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 36:17 Yeah. Give me a break. No, I met. I met a person once who was very proud of the fact that they got certified in Colorado, the first ready, therapy rat. I'm sitting. Oh, how does that work? Jackie Robinson ** 36:35 Yeah, yes. Yeah. And then you had those people actually speaking of planes that would bring their hamsters and then you can't have a flush them down the toilet? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, people, people Michael Hingson ** 36:52 want to see that, that means you're always going to have a job. And so you finally discovered, though, that the sky wasn't really falling? Or maybe it was, but you could cope with it? Hmm. I could Jackie Robinson ** 37:04 cope, you know, let the sky Gosh, a most recent example. So you can't make this up. And this is I have such a positive mindset typically. And so that that's what else helped with I think, thinking of grounding techniques to support well being to reduce panic attacks, was it really allowed my just innate way of wanting to think positive come through, doesn't mean that I don't focus on problems, because I know sometimes that can be the barrier label of those that are just more positive minded. That toxic positivity, we've heard that term a lot, right, where, you know, you don't allow people their lived experience, but I'm very big on allow people to have their lived experience giving their time for emotions. But I love positive thinking, because it allows us to come up with solutions or to get through tough times. So the most recent challenge I experienced was, the day after Christmas, I ended up having a ruptured cyst, and bled out internal bleeding. If anyone's ever experienced it, you know how terribly painful it is, it's, I hope I don't ever experienced that again. And it was a full moon this December 26. So I was at the ER on a full moon, the day after Christmas, when everybody's there because nobody went, I don't think um, Christmas. And so first Urgent Care was on their waiting list for five hours in pain the whole time. But thankfully, you can put yourself on a list and then you go to the clinic, they said, we can't, we can't take you we're gonna fast track you to er, because this might be a kidney stone or an appendicitis thing. Okay, I'm in ER for a while. So fast forward 13 hours later, I get morphine. And it took two hours for it to kick in, because my pain at that point was just they had tried other medications props to the to the hospital, but you know, nothing, nothing was working at that point. So I came out of it. And I just thought, Well, I'm so glad that I get to at least not have surgery because I wasn't bleeding enough for surgery. And then I was thankful that 15 hours later the pain had finally stopped and I could go home and you know, sleep sitting up. And that's that positive piece. The positive thinking of how do we take a challenge when you know that you've had anxiety and you can go into panic attacks and manage it in a way that is effective. So I was in dire pain for a long time but at the end of the day I can kind of you know joke about it now. Michael Hingson ** 39:54 So does it kind of just heal on itself. Jackie Robinson ** 39:56 It will heal on its own. Yeah. So now it's just You know, asking those questions, what is my body need? Yeah, um, so if I need rest or a nap and I'll take it, I do walks on the treadmill, it might be 1.7 miles per hour, you know, not still more miles per hour, but it's walking. It's day by day progress. And so I think it's that anytime we have a challenge, how do we break it down and see the positive in it, so that we can get through it. But then, just, you know, when you break it down, step by step, it's much easier to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Michael Hingson ** 40:31 I've always been a very large water drinker, but nevertheless, I feel your pain in a sense, because I did have a kidney stone once. And it is no fun is Jackie Robinson ** 40:42 your heart. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 40:45 it is no fun. And it took several hours for it to pass in the hospital. But it did. It did. And it's just kind of one of those things that occurs. Jackie Robinson ** 40:57 Yeah. Oh, yeah, I do not. I do not envy those with appendicitis or kidney stones after feeling that pain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Haven't Michael Hingson ** 41:10 had to worry about appendicitis, but did have a kidney stone and, and then they said, You need to drink more water. And I said, Look, I'm drinking like 80 ounces a day. But I upped it, but I upped it to 100. That's okay. No, not a problem. But you know, it's just one of those things. And it goes on. Well, so free. So for you. You, you are evolving like all of us. Share if you would maybe kind of a personal challenge or goal that you're working on now in the world. Yeah. Well, it must have one up. Jackie Robinson ** 41:47 Yeah, it's one in the same. I think now it really is a challenge because I wasn't expecting to get a ruptured cyst. Well, yeah, holidays. But um, I want to I want to run my 10th official half marathon into February. In Vegas. I did their marathon a while back. And yeah, I've just I thought, you know, nine, half marathons. Officially, I'll use the air quotes, quote, unquote, is good, but 10 is just now that feels more like I don't remember. Yeah, yes. So that is end of February. Right now I'm still walking because I can't do much more. I'm just kind of going with where my my body wants to go. But that is actually a fun goal and challenge. It's going to be even more of a fun goal and challenge now because it's, you know, time that the clock is ticking. Michael Hingson ** 42:44 The cyst heal in time, do you think? I Jackie Robinson ** 42:46 hope so they said, it takes a few weeks for it to break down and kind of your, your blood to reabsorb in your body. But it's all just kind of based on the individual to in terms of how soon you can get back to exercise and your day to day. So it starts with a walk. But that's my next challenge. Take on SO. Water, I'll be there. Michael Hingson ** 43:10 Well, if it isn't in February, when's the next one after February? Jackie Robinson ** 43:13 It'd be next year. Another I just sign up for another race. Right? I just find one. Yeah, this would be a fun one. Yeah. Well, there you go. It's a good end goal to have in mind for health and recovery. And Michael Hingson ** 43:27 you'll be able to do it. And then if it isn't in February, it'll come soon enough. Jackie Robinson ** 43:31 With both of our positive mindsets. I think we're putting the energy and this energy out there. Yeah, this is gonna happen. But listen Michael Hingson ** 43:38 to your body. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jackie Robinson ** 43:41 Well, I could always walk. Right? The Walk jog. Yeah. Yeah. But though that's next for me. Well, there you go. physical wellbeing challenge slash goal is is the immediate next thing around the corner for me. Michael Hingson ** 43:59 So what do you do in general? I think you've talked about this some but if you want to go into more detail about a deal, what do you do? Or how do you handle stress and adversity, Jackie Robinson ** 44:08 positive thinking and well being tips and tricks, so it's, and I know it might be harder for some to think more positive by nature, some of us might be more problems focused, and that's okay. And some might be more solutions. Michael Hingson ** 44:25 So criminal tendency again, yeah. Jackie Robinson ** 44:28 Either one is okay, pick. The coming up with that positive lens on life is just easy for me. But for those that even think from a problems perspective, it can be helpful just to say, well, what's the worst that can happen and how to handle it? And then, so that helps me get through challenges and adversity is just glass half full, because I can come up with solutions so much quicker. And I love having a plan A, a plan B and A Plan C. So it makes me feel like no matter what's thrown my way. I'm gonna have a way to over Come in. But sometimes we're just, you know, punched in the face lots of times by life. The one thing that is a constant is the change life throws at us. So if there is just a lot of just challenges that are just coming, you know, left and right, I really, really do focus on grounding, techniques to support well being. So we ensure even more so that I'm getting exercise or that I get to talk to friends or family or I'm reading a book or I'm starting to limit my calendar as much as I can. Do Michael Hingson ** 45:34 you spend time daily are often just reflecting like how things are going and why things went the way they did not viewing it as a failure, but rather as a learning experience to making it better. Down the line, Jackie Robinson ** 45:50 I do my sink time for that is, typically when I'm outside, if I'm walking my dog, or I'm hiking, that's when I love just being able to think through, and it's not daily, that it gets to happen. But if I can get out a couple of times a week just to be outside on a walk, then that's what I'm doing on my treadmill, that's what I'll do. So I am a big champion of walking, or running or being outside and I share with people you know, there's a lot of science behind it. But we can come up with ideas and solutions and think through in our own processes and systems when we're we're walking well. Michael Hingson ** 46:34 And no matter what anyone does or says to you, you're still your own best teacher, and you have to process it, and synthesize it and make it work for yourself. Jackie Robinson ** 46:45 Exactly. Yeah, some and so one of the questions that I'll ask too, and you bring up that point is, what has whenever it comes. Whenever you think about what's supported you in the past when you've overcome adversity, what helps you get through that? Is it journaling? Is it bike riding? What does that look like for you because everyone's going to have their own mechanism. We forget what that can be sometimes when we're stuck in the weeds. So it's nice to have a mirror so to speak, and someone that can help you reflect on that. Michael Hingson ** 47:19 Yeah, and it's, I don't know, for me a matter of the glasses half full, but it's also when something is going on and you don't know, necessarily directly what to do. I think listening to our hearts does tend to help us but also developing a circle of people you can go to to seek advice and not being afraid to do it. Too many people live I couldn't do that i i can't solve it myself. It's a sign of weakness if I let somebody else help, and that's not true. Jackie Robinson ** 47:59 It's yeah, spot on. We thriving communities. The South African concept of Ubuntu, you know, I am because we are, the more we can kind of support on each other have at least one support system in your life. It can be so beneficial. Yeah. We don't need to tackle it alone. Michael Hingson ** 48:18 And shouldn't Yeah, yeah, there's there's always value in a team. That's right. Jackie Robinson ** 48:25 Hey, we used to hunt and kill that way, right? When we were hunters and gatherers. We had a tribe. We like to think it's changed, but we still need that community. Michael Hingson ** 48:38 Well, we do and it's part of our nature or ought to be and too many people think that they don't need to and they just think that they're being more macho and all that. And the reality is it doesn't work that way. Jackie Robinson ** 48:52 Absolutely. Well, Michael Hingson ** 48:53 so tell me more about your coaching business. Do you coach people all over the country, the world virtually? Or what do you do? Jackie Robinson ** 49:01 I do I coach virtually I coach on site, but more or less, it's virtually across the globe, just depending on the time zone. Typically managers, leaders and executives, but I also work with individuals love coaching students. There's something about students because they're, you know, they're just coming out in the world. They're super excited about it. They're just fresh face. They've got so many dreams and ideas and so anytime I'm working with higher education, it's a pleasure. Because we've got all these we've got a new generation that's gonna go out there and shoot great things. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 49:45 And they should be encouraged to it's it's so frustrating. I see so many times, like children being discouraged from being curious. They're being discouraged from dreaming and and Moving forward with all that there's nothing wrong with dreaming. There's nothing wrong with having hopes and learning, and maybe something won't work. And maybe adults recognize that. But it isn't the lesson, it's the discovery that really makes a difference, it seems to me, Jackie Robinson ** 50:18 Oh, that's such a great way of putting it. Yeah, having them lead with curiosity. Well, into that point, we're seeing that the Gen Z generation is the most entrepreneurial, they've kind of seen where the millennials have gone with education. Some of them are still getting their education, some would rather, you know, work full time, and then be part time in school where their education is least partially covered by corporations. And then some are saying, Hey, I just want to be a solopreneur. So I think we're all seeing that with social media and the way that they've become influencers are the way that they've just built companies, and they're making so much money so quick. I love seeing them. It's that curious spirit, they just haven't let go of and, you know, they're, they're gonna do what they want. They're kind of like the rebels or the Renegades of all the generations. And it's fun to see. Michael Hingson ** 51:18 I think that what we will we will see, though, is that you mentioned social media. The problem is that I'm not sure that we always make the best connections on social media, because it is still somewhat separate. And I think that the people who really succeed are the ones who really discovered the value of connection lism. Yes, Jackie Robinson ** 51:38 which goes to all the research that's starting to come out on how loneliness has spiked among individuals, and I think specifically, the 18 to 35 year old generation, really sad. I feel really bad for those that were in college during the pandemic, and they had their first, you know, New Year Experience online, they didn't get to have those connections that so many of us had with people and professors, and now they've got it, but I think they're still trying to acclimate Michael Hingson ** 52:13 Well, or they didn't take full exam, they didn't take full advantage of what they could do online. So rather than making connections through zoom, and actually having face to face contact, and discussions, it was all done through social media, sending messages and so on. And that's just not the same. No, Jackie Robinson ** 52:34 even now, if you put them all in a room, oftentimes, they'll be on their phone. Yeah, not looking at it. Michael Hingson ** 52:42 I've always found that fun. I hear. I hear jokes about kids doing that in the back seats of their cars, when they're riding around with their parents. And I actually asked somebody one day, why do you text to the person next to you in the car? Of course, the response was, Well, we don't want our parents to know what we're talking about. That's a problem, too. Yeah. Anyway, Jackie Robinson ** 53:02 yeah. See, I suppose for some of those that aren't solopreneurs that are actually growing companies, because they grew up at this time where loneliness, and social isolation is significant. And now that's a point of research for a lot of the site, you know, in the psychology world and sociology world. What are organizations going to look like 20 years from now, or 10 years from now, if they're the leaders of these companies, and they're not used to emotional intelligence and connection, it'll Michael Hingson ** 53:33 be interesting to see what they learned today, I Jackie Robinson ** 53:35 guess, that I just brought high. So even those of us with a positive mindset can go but wait, this is going to be it'll be interesting to see. Michael Hingson ** 53:42 Or they're going to or they're going to learn? Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said, for momentum. And the reality is that there are a lot of things that do work. And people who don't succeed are going to hopefully come to the realization well, maybe we need to change some of what we do. And there is value to what used to be that we should be taking advantage of. Jackie Robinson ** 54:07 Like AI, a lot of AI programs out there now teaching emotional intelligence. And Michael Hingson ** 54:13 there's a lot that AI can do. And you people keep talking about all the things that are bad about it, and so on. Yeah, but look at all the good things that come out of it. I mean, for that matter. It was artificial intelligence that did a lot of the initial work very quickly on developing the mRNA vaccines that we use for COVID. Wow. Yeah. They and I saw I heard in one report that using some sort of AI process they did in three days, that would have taken months or years for people to do without it. And that's the value of the tool. Jackie Robinson ** 54:56 Yes, there how many pros and I know there's A lot of cons that that people see. But of course, that's with any situation or sure, you know outcome. Of course, Michael Hingson ** 55:08 we have no problem using the internet today, even though there is still such a thing as the dark web. Jackie Robinson ** 55:16 Yeah, I don't think any of us want to go back to those heavy encyclopedia books that well, there is that to your library. Yeah, we lose the internet. Michael Hingson ** 55:26 I have a I just, I've never visited the dark web don't know how to do it. And it's probably inaccessible. Anyway. So yeah. So I will worry about it. How can people apply the things that we've been talking about today? What would you do to encourage people? And what are some of the first steps they should take? Jackie Robinson ** 55:44 Um, I'd have them think, you know, on a scale of one to five, I love scales, five being, I feel like I'm thriving in life, where do you feel you're sitting? If it's a three or a four, then you might, you know, and hopefully, it's not a one or two, but it very well could be a one or two. But once you identify that state of well, being where you're at right now, you could just curate a list, and really start to keep track of what you're doing day to day. And you could just make a side note next to each of those, you know, daily activities, personal and professional. Do you love it? Do you like it? Do you hate it, and then over really a month, span of time, you'll very quickly be able to see where your time and energy is, or you appreciate it and where it's draining you. And then that's going to start to give you those building blocks to say, Okay, now how do I rearrange my day where I'm doing more of what I love, and less of what I don't love. For some, it really is a mental shift. And people have had aha moments to go, I don't like what I'm doing anymore. Like professionally, I need to switch roles, you might be within the same organization. But maybe this now gives you the the feedback and insights to say this is what I'd like to do more of instead. This is where I'd like to delegate, or maybe kind of disengage if if possible, maybe you are looking for something entirely different because it's no longer, you know, going against your your moral grant or your values. And that can be very, very helpful. It's just an initial starting point. And it's the new year. So it might be a good time to. And Michael Hingson ** 57:30 the other thing you might discover, is really what you're doing you really liked doing and you just don't think you do until you think about it. And it's all about taking that time. Whichever way you go. It's all about taking that time to think about it and reflect. Yes, Jackie Robinson ** 57:45 yes. And what's the percentage of time you want to spend every day on that thing that you love? You might be doing it daily? Maybe it's 10%? How do you increase it to 25%? If that? That would be your sweet spot? Yeah. So yeah, then it allows you to really break it down and get more tactical about what is the the average amount of time I want to spend here? Michael Hingson ** 58:06 And what is it? What is it I don't love? And why is it I don't love it? And maybe maybe it isn't really as bad as you think it is. It's all about taking the time to put things in perspective. Jackie Robinson ** 58:20 Yep. And as you mentioned earlier, everyone's gonna have their own time and space for that. I know, parents, they can get really busy. I've seen parents that get up at four or five in the morning. And they'll get in their workout or their think time, because that allows them to reflect or they get up at the same time because four or five is not their jam wouldn't be mine. But they'll go on a walk at maybe 6am with the kid, if it's a baby, you know, so the baby's in the stroller, and they're walking outside, and we're able to kind of sort through their thoughts before they check their work emails. So it's really just thinking, what is what's going to be best for me when when might be an opportune time. And I do some 15 minutes. Michael Hingson ** 59:03 Yeah, it isn't something that has to take a long, long time. But but you have to take the time to do it. I tend to do it a lot when I'm going to bed. And I actually fall asleep sometimes thinking about it. But it doesn't mean you have to spend hours at it. But but it is important to let your your mind slow down and help your mind slow down because that's going to make you a stronger and a more vibrant individual. Jackie Robinson ** 59:29 Yes, you reminded me of the gratitude journals, where you're just writing three things that you loved for the day or three challenges you experienced and how you're going to overcome it next and that can take five minutes. Yep, the end of the day. It Michael Hingson ** 59:46 doesn't need to take a long time. No, no, but it can be very valuable. Or go pet a dog or a cat. Yes. I have one of each. And the cat demands a lot of petting but it's so hey she's acuity. Well, if her name is stitch, we rescued her, Oh, we were actually going to just take her and find her home because the people who owned her the wife had died and the husband was going into an assisted living facility and decided that he didn't want to take the cat and he just told his caregiver take the cat to the pound. And we learned about it. And my wife said, Absolutely not. But then I, I made the mistake of asking what the cat's name was. And they said the cast name was stitch now what you need to know about my wife. When she was alive, she passed away November of 2022. But she was a professional quilter from 1994 on do you think a quilter is going to let go of a cat named stitch? Jackie Robinson ** 1:00:53 Yeah, ain't Michael Hingson ** 1:00:54 happening. Oh, my Jackie Robinson ** 1:00:55 God. It's a sign that with the sign was oh, it was a silent smile from heaven. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:02 In stitchy, is still here and, and loves to get petted while she eats and loves to interact. So it's great. Jackie Robinson ** 1:01:09 I love that. I love that for you. This year, Michael Hingson ** 1:01:12 it'll be nine years since in genuinely change later in January. It'll be nine years since we got her so she's a great cat. Wow, Jackie Robinson ** 1:01:22 it was meant to be. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:23 Oh, yeah. Well clearly meant to be with a name like stitch. Absolutely. No question about definitely. If people want to reach out that people want to reach out to you. How do they do that? Jackie Robinson ** 1:01:36 Yes, you can find me on the gram on Instagram. I'm at Dr. Jaclynn Robinson. Thank you, J A C L, Y N N. Almost like Jaclynn Smith that Charlie's Angel, except with two ends. Yes, Dr. Jaclynn Robinson. I'm also on I've got a website. So you can also find me at Jaclynn robinson.com which made it very easy. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:09 There you go. Jackie Robinson ** 1:02:10 Why not? Why not just you can hunt me down. And then I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm also I have to check. My LinkedIn is Jaclynn Robinson. It said Jaclynn Robinson. Yeah. So you'd be able to find me there. And then I'm also on AIX, which I'm still you know, I'm surprised I didn't say Twitter. I think I've been acclimated to it now being called the EC. But under that when I am at nine muses, like the nine shoot that's ology p r o d, short for nine Muses productions. So find uses P Michael Hingson ** 1:02:49 im uses productions? Jackie Robinson ** 1:02:51 Well, Greg did not take credit for that. But my, my brother came up with my company name, whenever I had started doing work in entertainment, because it's, you know, the muses are such a blend of science, and art and poetry and all of that. So we thought, That's a good name for your social sciences and entertainment background. Michael Hingson ** 1:03:13 That's a great, very clever name. I'm Jackie Robinson ** 1:03:15 not better. I cannot take the credit for that one. But I will never let it go like I'm Michael Hingson ** 1:03:20 fine. Good for you. Well, I want to thank you for being with us. This has been a lot of fun. And I really want to thank you all for listening to us. And hopefully, you found some great insights with everything that Jacqueline had to say and that you will reach out to her. Let her coach you or at least it'd be great to interact and another person to talk with. We'd love it if you would give us a five star review wherever you're listening to unstoppable mindset. So wherever that is, please give us a five star review and a rating. appreciate it greatly love to hear your comments and thoughts. You're welcome to email me my email address is Michael m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C S S I B E.com. Or you can go to our podcast page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. So that's www.michelhingson.com/podcast. But love those ratings and reviews and Jackie, both for you and for all of you listening out there. If you know of anyone else who you think we ought to have on unstoppable mindset, love to hear from you. Really I would appreciate any introductions and thoughts that you have because we're always looking for guests who want to come on and talk and tell their stories and all of that. So I would really appreciate it if you'd suggest guests. We are always grateful for doing that. So the only thing I can say once more Jackie is thank you very much. It's been great that you're here. Really appreciate your time and just thank you for for being with us today. Jackie Robinson ** 1:05:00 Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Michael Hingson ** 1:05:06 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. 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