How “Relational Dysfunction” Is Ruining Everything (with Melanie Joy) (Ep.61)

The Simple Heart w/ Wayne Hsiung

Melanie Joy is a Harvard-educated psychologist who focuses on how individual mental patterns can cause (or block) social transformation. And she has focused much of her work recently on so-called “relational dysfunction” and “dysregulation” are undermining, not just social movements, but all of human society. We talk about what dysfunction and dysregulation in relationships looks like, and how to overcome it, in this conversation.

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Beyond Carnism’s website:

https://carnism.org/

Learn more about Melanie’s award-winning book, “Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows” and download the first chapter for free:

https://carnism.org/books

End Infighting website:https://infighting.org/

Learn more about Melanie’s book, “How to End Injustice Everywhere”:

https://infighting.org/how-to-end-injustice-everywhere

Beyond Carnism’s social media links:

https://www.instagram.com/beyondcarnism

https://www.facebook.com/beyondcarnism

https://bsky.app/profile/beyondcarnism.bsky.social

https://youtube.com/@BeyondCarnism/

Melanie Joy’s social media links:

https://www.instagram.com/drmelaniejoy

https://www.facebook.com/melaniejoyphd

https://bsky.app/profile/drmelaniejoy.bsky.social

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmelaniejoy/

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The Simple Heart on Substack - Subscribe to Wayne Hsiung's newsletter to learn more about the #RightToRescue at https://www.simpleheart.org!

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Chapters:

Chapter 1) 00:00-14:09 Intro, what is relational literacy (integrity, communication, and connection), social media, & responding to people that act morally superior to others

Chapter 2) 14:10-27:01 How to not call out individuals for bad behavior & on publicly shaming institutions

Chapter 3) 27:02-42:59 On anger vs contempt, on shame vs guilt, & how to use your anger in a productive way

Chapter 4) 43:00-53:09 On mindfulness and meditation & on social media and capitalism

Chapter 5) 53:10-1:04:04 About building relational literacy & are there limits of relational literacy

Chapter 6) 1:04:05-1:08:43 Why Melanie started working on relational literacy and activist infighting, use Beyond Carnism resources, & follow Beyond Carnism and Melanie (links above)

Chapter 7) 1:08:44-1:09:00 Outro video - Thank you for watching! Please Subscribe. Acknowledgments to the Podcast Team: Joe Allman, Adam Durand, & Chloe Leffakis

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Books/Articles Mentioned:

“No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model” by Richard C. Schwartz (2021):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Schwartz

“Getting Relationships Right: How to Build Resilience and Thrive in Life, Love, and Work” by Melanie Joy:

https://carnism.org/book/getting-relationships-right/

“The Sociopaths Among Us—And How to Avoid Them: You’re bound to come across the ‘Dark Triad’ type of malignant narcissists in life—and they can be superficially appealing. Better to look for their exact opposite.” by Arthur C. Brooks:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/dark-triads-toxic-personalities/675683/

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Movies mentioned:

“Blackfish” (2013, Documentary)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfish_(film)

“Inside Out” (2015)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Out_(2015_film)

“Inside Out 2” (2024)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Out_2

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Apps mentioned:

“Waking Up: Meditation & Wisdom”

(This app is available only on the App Store for iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch.)

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/waking-up-meditation-wisdom/id1307736395

“Waking Up: Beyond Meditation”

https://apps.apple.com/ni/app/waking-up-beyond-meditation/id1307736395

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wakingup.android&hl=en_US&pli=1

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Other links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyashanti

https://adyashanti.opengatesangha.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Shukman

https://henryshukman.com/

https://lochkelly.org/

https://veganadvocacy.org/

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