Episode 25 - Joseph Tanney, Resolution: 4 Architecture

The Prefab Pod

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Prefab Review

Hi, my name is Michael Frank and this is the Prefab Pod presented by Prefab Review where we interview leading people in companies in the prefab housing industry today. We're speaking with Joseph Tanney of Resolution: 4 Architecture also known as RES4, a firm based out of New York. Joseph, welcome.

Joseph Tanney - RES4

Ah, nice to be here Michael. Thanks for having me.

Prefab Review

Yeah, it's our pleasure, Joseph. To start, I know you literally wrote the book on modular housing but can you start and just tell me a little bit about your background and how you became involved in modular architecture?

RES4

Well, we started doing research into modular off-site construction in about 2002 right after 9/11 and I think I should back up. We started our practice in 1990 so there's a number of things that sort of led to this. And in the first ten years of our practice, we're a small office and we do, like many small offices in the city, interior renovations and we'd start off with kitchens and bathrooms and they'd grow to apartment renovations and grow a little bit more. And so we had this interest because the spaces are so limited in New York and the square footage is so expensive that we developed this sufficiency of trying to pack in as we can into every space.

Prefab Review

We have a national audience, this is specifically for high rises in Manhattan and places like that, right?

RES4

Yeah, loft buildings, various high-rises, and different low-rise buildings. But yeah, a whole series of them here in the city, and we did a lot of interior renovations. So we really honed our craft in terms of built-ins. You know we would do a lot of cabinetry and build in a lot of the furniture and tables and millwork and everything because it would be limited space and it'd also be limited time in which you're allowed to actually build something in a co-op. And so we started to rely heavily on built-in cabinets because they were much more efficient. That way, we could build the majority of the project off-site and be a lot more efficient onsite. And we had done quite a bit of this the first 10 years. And then after 9/11, all of our work went on hold. And at that time, we had also just started working on a house upstate and began to realize how frustrating it was to actually find competent contractors outside of the city that had the same sense of urgency. In other words, when you build small spaces in New York the coordination in terms of what bits show up when so you're not having too many materials and things like that inside the apartment are going up in the elevator. So the logistics of the execution of actually putting something together needs to be heavily planned out. We found that working outside of the city with some of these residential GCs there was a lack of urgency. There was a lack of rigor. There was just a lack of intensity in terms of how you make something from nothing. We had a little extra time on our hands because all of our other projects had gone on hold; so we started looking. We started doing some research into off-site construction. You know it was sort of our preoccupation with cabinetry and off-the-shelf materials and long, linear loft spaces that we had been working on, that we felt this sort of kindred spirit with the limits imposed by modular. So that's how it started.

Our work was on hold and we had time, so we started looking into more and more things. Utilitarian nature, if you will, at the time. And in our research, we looked into and contacted as many factories as we could. And what we found was, you probably know this, within sort of this umbrella term everybody uses, “prefab”. There's the way we see it, there are basically 3 tiers: You know on one end of the spectrum you have HUD, you know it's sort of a glorified trailer. But it's a very affordable means for many Americans to have housing. It's low cost but a low opportunity to improve upon the design and on the other side of the spectrum, you have a kind of parts or panelized, if you will. And we've done several dozen of those projects as well. But the one we felt the most kindred spirit with was modular, right in the middle because of long linear limitations, very similar to a loft but the restrictions are very undefined. So you understand you're working within these limits, very similar to working within a loft, so it was a very natural extension of our practice to sort of use this as a limiting tool in design if that makes any sense.

Prefab Review

Yeah, it totally makes sense, especially when you think about how row houses are in some ways structurally very similar to a bunch of modules, one on top of another.

RES4

They are. As are lofts. And we've done quite a few brownstone renovations as well. And ultimately, as our practice grew and our clients grew, and they began to sort of move outside of the city a few of our clients at that time were like, “man we just want to get out of the city. Wouldn't it be great if you just took that loft you did for us and just parked it out in the woods in New Jersey?” And so there were a number of things that sort of instigated our looking into our natural preoccupation with it. And then literally some clients you know brought it up as a joke.

But the more factories we were able to talk to, and we literally went around the country knocking on doors, you know, talking to whoever would listen to us, mostly modular factories. Especially back then they did not have a need for architecture, nor did they want to work with them.

Prefab Review

Right, and I mean the economy of doing a one-off project is still a hard sell for some of them, right? Because they're like, name your mass-market company, wants to build 100 of the same type and you want to build one of these things that are whatever, 5,000 square feet

RES4

Well, that's what's interesting, is that the more factories that let us in the door, and the more we really understood how they operated, a lot of the higher-end mod, first of all, I just want to say that we were doing a lot of this in 2002. And what we found was that in the modular realm, at the time, there were, depending on how they classified themselves, say 100 to 200 modular factories in the country. And what we found, is that the majority both in quantity and quality, we found right in our backyard in Pennsylvania. And as you went further south and further west., that quantity and quality just began to vaporize. You get to Indiana and you have a lot of manufactured homes and at the time in California, I think there were maybe 5 and they were all manufactured homes. There was very little modular happening and the majority of it was concentrated in the Northeast. So that gave us the opportunity to visit a few more factories right here in our backyard. And we began to learn what their process is and what their limits are. And the better ones were very proud of themselves, they were not doing cookie cutters, they were doing custom homes, even if it just meant moving a wall or a window. So that allowed us to tap into that and say, “well we're doing the same thing. So we were working with them because we had done this research and we posted some concepts on our website and we immediately started getting hits in terms of people asking, “how do we get one?”

In the beginning, we posted it as an idea. As a concept just to see what we could do with this research and these ideas about working within the limits of the modular industry. So as you say a one-off, what we developed instead was a system which we could design and spit out, let's say, one-off by using the methods of mass production. In other words, this idea of mass customization came out in about the mid-'90s and the idea is that you can create a one-off of something specific using methods of mass production. So that's what we focused on as opposed to trying to design this year's model house to be sold. We focused instead on a process of design that would allow us to design site-specific modern homes for individual clients and various budgets in different locations.

Prefab Review

Yeah, that's super cool and obviously sounds very innovative at the time. I've read a little bit about what you all did in terms of, I'll give a quick insufficient understanding of what I know, and then maybe you can elaborate more. So kind of the idea I think it's called modules of use, right? Which it seems like are kind of flexible components and sort of the core things to have in the house which I think is some of what you're alluding to in terms of your system of production. Do you think you can explain a little more about what you all figured out and developed and how you still use those today?

RES4

Well, the modules of use. Yes, the idea starts with the limits determined by the department of transportation on what you can ship down the highway. And that's basically 16 feet wide 11 feet high and 60 feet long, in general. It changes per county, and so it's within those limits that we started to look to see what, as you said, could we do within those limits. You know, what kind of house can we actually begin to design? And then we started to break these things down into their different components and we started to call them modules of use. Kitchens you know, communal modules, kitchen dining, and living. And private modules of bedrooms and bathrooms were just simple exercises of understanding the relationships and the scale of these pieces based on what you would actually need for cabinets and couches and chairs and bathtubs and showers and beds and closets and everything that you would need in these elements. They actually have to have whether it's a loft or a house, these are elements one needs to make it domestic. So we started focusing on those pieces and began to find these, we call them emerging patterns. Basically, there are a series of guidelines. And they base on cabinets and widths of corridors and various sorts of common denominators in terms of how one would lay out a domestic space. And so we thought of these contiguous relationships within the limits of each module. And when the program requirements would grow outside of the limits of a module we started looking at the various combinations of both two-dimensional and three-dimensional massing studies. And that's where we developed this idea and type. So we started with very small and grew up to an unlimited idea. And we took an unlimited idea and at the same time tried to break it down into its most essential components - the modules of use. They're conceptual building blocks. They're not physical building blocks of implementation. So we design with these limits in mind and the actual fabrication of the boxes varies relative to a whole series of other things.

Prefab Review

That makes sense. So in terms of where your practice has evolved to today, obviously like I'm on your website right now, I see all sorts of beautiful single-family homes as well as a variety of a couple of other types of projects. Are you mostly doing single-family residences now or do you still do a variety of things?

RES4

Oh, we do a variety of things. But I think the majority of our work is single-family residences. We have on average about 15 to 20 projects going on at any time; half of those are usually modular, the other half is often split between site-built homes and apartment renovations/loft renovations or you know we're doing right now a couple of mid-century modern renovations up in West Chester. We're doing 3 site-built homes with prefabricated components down in Florida. So we do a wide range of things. And again we're architects so we're a little bit different in this space of prefab in that we don't sell any boxes or modules, we design what we think is the best bang for the buck and identify the appropriate fulfillment partners.

Prefab Review

Right.

RES4

So we can deliver the highest value proposition possible and a prefab isn't necessarily it every time. That's a really important thing to note.

Prefab Review

Yeah, So we find that out, not all the time but sometimes, and I'd say the not the biggest reason we usually find out and let's treat modular a little differently than panelized. But that modular doesn't work for some people because the access needed ends up being prohibitive or complicated, especially we've done a bunch of projects on the west coast, at least in like Tahoe and in Marin and places where it could be kind of tricky getting you know, 40 foot long modules in. Is that the key reason that you end up moving towards site builds in those situations, or are there other ones?

RES4

Yeah, access is key. That's absolutely one of the limits of modular construction. There are some other things in terms of if you really want to leverage the modern methodology of delivery. You need to be sure you're working within those lines. It's not only your cranes and telephone wires and hills and the size of boxes. But also in terms of products, it's really important to understand the reason why modular is so effective is because the implementation is so efficient. And the reason why the implementation can be so efficient is when everything is fully coordinated and it's not just about the box. It's also about the setting of the box The finishing of the box. The performance of the box. So, there are a lot of other things that come into play to determine if what we're going to do is modular, panelized, hybrid, or a site-built home. A lot of it also has to do with not only the location but the client's access to particular contractors in that location. A number of things have an impact on it.

Prefab Review

That makes sense. Can you talk about the process of someone working with you? Oftentimes people who come to our site are trying to figure out whether they should work with an architect, whether they should work with a design-build firm, whether they should, you know, work with a non-custom plan etc. But we don't have to talk about those options, at least in your case. How does it start in terms of your interaction? So once a client signs up and let's just say you deem it to be feasible, is a site visit next? Yeah, what are the steps?

RES4

Well, there's a variety of things that happen. We first do due diligence on the site. We have a meeting of the minds even before we get signed up. We go through an understanding of what the program is, what the process is, what their budget is, the realities of that budget on this particular site. So we have quite a dialogue and interaction with the client even before we put together a proposal to get signed up. And so one of the first things after we understand we're in the realm of possibility here, then we start doing due diligence on the site in terms of zoning, what are the setbacks? What are the limitations of lot coverage, pyramid rule, etc? And we go through the process, the same as we would when we site build, in terms of identifying all the constraints and then using our discretion and those have to do also with what the client’s needs and their budgets and their expectations are. So a lot of that has an impact. So there's a lot of discussions of what's possible and we start very generally and we get incredibly specific. The overall process typically is 4 phases of four months each. So the first phase, we spend a lot of time with the client designing their home, specifying everything down to you know, every toilet paper holder, towel bar. We know every outlet, every dimmer, every window that opens, we know towel hooks, they take off their shoes, where are you going to charge your phone at night? How many kids, how many friends? We go through an extensive process of just developing a program together. And then the process begins like any other process through sketches and then models and by the end of that first phase, we have a complete set of documents that we send to the factory for pricing.

And when we get pricing back from the factory and it's in line with our expectations we start into phase 2 where we spend a lot of time then with the factory and the engineers. And we go through the coordination of systems built approval because as you know, even though the boxes and they get built in a factory, the inspections are done in the factory for state approvals and it varies and while that's happening we're also putting together a bid set of drawings. For a GC we find 3 to 5 local guys. We vet them and we meet them. We talk through it with them to see if they're actually capable. Will you outbid?

Prefab Review

So one question, so are you getting bids from the factory before having full construction of the modules? Is that what you're saying? So you sort of get module costs first and then you do full engineering and then you get local costs?

RES4

Oh yeah, we do a full set of factory drawings first to make sure we know what the costs are coming out of the factory and the numbers are based on our experience. Yeah, because of the process, so that's the other thing when it's absolutely a process and so there are many things happening at the same time and that's what allows for quite a bit of the efficiency.

Prefab Review

That makes sense. Okay, so then you get multiple bids and you hire your local GC.

RES4

Yeah, we create a little matrix and level them so we pick the right guy at the right time for the right price for the right job. It's really important, the fulfillment partner is really key, so you can make great boxes.

Prefab Review

Do they have to have experience with modular?

RES4

For most people that have experience with modular, their expectations aren't as high as ours. So we like to find 3 to 5 local people who live in the area. Their kids are going to go to the same school, they're going to shop in the same grocery store. So if you bump into them on the street and we want them to hold their head up high and be proud and not run away. It's definitely a vetting process to find the right fulfillment partner. And it's important. We control the whole process.

Prefab Review

And you're doing the set and the install, they're not doing that right? You're doing that or you're working with some specialized contractor for that?

RES4

The only way this stuff works is because everybody understands the bits and pieces that need to be coordinated and related. If it's not a fully integrated process, modular construction's a nightmare. If it's fully coordinated from the first idea all the way through moving it's really quite amazing. It's really a special thing. It's easier in a sense to site-build something if you just make decisions. You know as you go along because there are all kinds of opportunities for delay. When you build something in the factory, everything needs to be completely specified. But more importantly, thought out, because it takes more time you know, crossing the t's and dotting the i's than it actually takes to actually build the boxes. There's an excessive amount of planning and coordination that goes into it in advance. And that's happening during phase two. So at the end of phase 2, we have everybody lined up. We have our local permits, our state permits, we've administered a contract between the client and the GC and the GC and the factory and the factory gets a deposit from the GC who gets it from the client, again administered by our process. And that kicks off phase three which starts with the procurement of all the materials, ordering everything. And it takes maybe 8 to 12 months over the last year, that's sort of had a big hiccup in it. And while that's happening the GC is digging a hole and putting in the foundation, utility, septic, well, you know, grading it, preparing the site for the boxes. The boxes go online. They might take 2 to 4 weeks depending and maybe another week in the yard. But you know phase 3 is typically again four months and at the end of phase 3, the boxes are done in the factory. They're shipped to the site overnight. And with a big crane, it usually takes them a day to set and that kicks off phase four, which is the onsite completion and throughout all of these, we're going to the factory. We're going to the site. We have weekly meetings with the GC we create minutes and photographs and follow it all the way through and sign off on all the cost requisitions from the GC to the client so that we're the client's agent. We're the one that coordinates everybody and pulls that all together to be sure it ends up looking like we expect it to.

Prefab Review

That makes sense. Again your houses are really beautiful, world-class-looking houses. The next question is of course the cost question. So it looks like you've done a lot of houses, you can pick. We've also done a bunch of projects in sort of the Hamptons or in Upstate New York. You can pick whatever geo you want and let's assume a flat-ish non-insane site because I know that can add a lot of costs. But let's say you were building a house. You get to pick your typical size. Whatever, a couple of thousand square feet or whatever. How much do does the house and the full project end up costing outside of land, if you kind of broke down those components?

RES4

Well again, it varies, every project's different, but let's say you're a client and you're calling up and you're asking me this question I'd say, everybody wants to know how much it's going to cost and how long it's going to take.

Prefab Review

True.

RES4

And architects always have an incredibly difficult time with that because, hey, you don't know what you're going to build. You don't know what it's going to look like when you first start. So the whole idea of prefab sort of alleviates a lot of that anxiety, but we're still sort of creating something from nothing. And at the end of the day, it's always about the cost. It's the biggest anxiety - time and money. But the first one is always money, in our experience. We recommend people, and again, this has changed over the last three months and over the last year and three years, so I'll try to give it some context. Through 2020 we'd recommend budgeting on average, say $500 a square foot. You know they were really about $450 - $550 but $500 a square foot approximately. Half of that, $250 a square foot are the boxes completed about 80% in the factory and shipped to the site; the other half of that about $250 a foot is for the GC in terms of digging a whole foundation, making all the connections, the siding, the flooring, the appliances, the finish painting, so that's where the house is. So say if it's 2,000 square feet that'd be a million dollars. Now in addition to that…

Prefab Review

Right. Does that count that on soft cost? Sorry, that's where you're getting to.

RES4

Yeah, no it doesn't. And so it's soft cost for mechanical and structural engineering in the boxes. It is not a soft cost for architects, we charge 15% of the construction cost. Additional construction costs are say exterior terraces or decks or porches depending on where we are and what we're doing. We'll budget those from you know, $50 - $100 a foot. If we're doing any garages we might budget those in around you know, $200 - $250 a foot. You know, pools are $100,000. Finished basements vary depending on what we're putting down there. So we have a range of costs per square foot. For screen porches, breezeways, all the bits and pieces you'll see on our website, and we have those because we've been able to do similar things over time and we sort of having this data now about the costs and what they are. And that's why I can sit here and say well in 202, you know $500 a foot was pretty good and we were building stuff. And then in 2021 the number started coming out of the factory as opposed to between $225 and $275 averaging $250 they started going from $250 to $300 a foot averaging about $275.

Prefab Review

Yeah, yeah.

RES4

And in the last three months alone, the numbers are coming in between the last three to 5 projects between $275 and $325, averaging about $300 a square foot coming out of the factory. So this is a really recent thing that's literally just happened since the end of December and there are a number of reasons why. I think everyone's experiencing it.

Prefab Review

We're seeing the same across the board. Labor plus supply chain and I said we're seeing the same thing across the board.

RES4

Everybody is everywhere. And part of it now is just being able to actually get some of these things. So there are certain issues with windows right now. In the beginning, there were certain issues with rigid insulation. So what's happening is that's having an impact on the schedule because like I said, all of the materials are procured before it goes online. So there isn't a box sort of sitting half-built going down the line. So it's important to understand when all of those bits and pieces are coming in. So it's bumped a couple of our projects right now, some of the window lines by months, so we're in the middle of dealing with that. As is everybody else, right now.

Prefab Review

Yeah, we've seen windows specifically being the slowest, especially any kind of custom. You know, very specific specs. And basically, we're telling everyone we work with, “the second you're getting financing with a modular, make sure those are procured as early as possible,” because that specifically we've seen hold up projects. So moving on, last question about RES4. If there's maybe a specific project on your site, so people can then reference it when they listen to this, that you're really proud of, or wanted to maybe tell us the story. Is there one you'd be willing to walk through?

RES4

Without looking at the images myself, probably not. I mean that's like trying to tell which is your favorite child. It's a very difficult thing. I mean the most interesting thing is whatever I happen to be working on, right? Then at the moment, and like I said, we have you know 10 to 20 projects happening at the same time. So it's exhilarating. It's very rewarding. It's a lot of fun. I will mention that we just started on a project - a lake up in New Hampshire. The constraints are very tight and our building envelope is 142’ x 13’ wide. It's a very long lakehouse.

Prefab Review

Yeah, that's pretty cool. A lot of surface area for windows. Interesting.

RES4

And so that's been an interesting challenge. It's very cool. So that just happens to be one. We're also replacing a beach bungalow in Belmar, New Jersey right now with a modular in a very modest neighborhood. So we're doing a number, you know you get me started talking about it and I can't stop. We're doing an incredible one up on the Hudson River. We're doing several in the Hudson Valley. So they're all interesting. We're very fortunate. They're all a lot of fun with great clients and we have super talented employees. So it's a total blast.

Prefab Review

Yeah, it sounds like you're doing a lot of waterfront homes. That's awesome.

And are there specific factories you work with over and over? I think I saw I don't remember if it was your Instagram or theirs, I saw some of your boxes in the Simplex Factory in Pennsylvania. Do work with them a lot or do you work with other factories a lot?

RES4

We've worked with Simplex. They've built quite a few of our houses. I don't know if I mentioned it, we've built modular panelized hybrids from Maine to Hawaii using quite a range of fulfillment partners. And depending on where we build, we'll work with different factories. But yeah, simplex is one of them that we've built many homes with. And it depends also on where the location is because as you know, not all factories are licensed in all states. So it depends on where we're building.

Prefab Review

Got it. Okay, this has been great to learn a bunch about your firm and your background. We try to take advantage of whoever we have on the podcast to get them to answer a few fire-round questions so we can tap into their expertise. Assuming you're willing to do it, do your best to answer each of these questions in a minute or less but we won't be too much of a stickler. Can you talk a little bit, obviously you've built a number of houses in the Hamptons area or in different kinds of beach and oceanside areas. Is there anything special you do for those with respect to elements or anything else?

RES4

Yeah, the ones on the water you're saying, the ones on the beach? Well, often a number of things. Anything with the salt air, you have to be very careful about everything you specify because it degrades incredibly quickly. Another thing that happens when you build on the sand is making sure, the foundations vary greatly because sometimes you can use a standard poured concrete foundation which is most feasible but a lot of times when the soils aren't stable you need to do piles or castings or a lot of times they'll drive you piers in and do concrete grade beams and then steel frames on top of it. So depending on the situation, foundations change a lot. That's one aspect of it and the other is the rust, you know stain less doesn't mean it doesn't stain it means it stains less.

Prefab Review

Got it. So you just have to expect more maintenance and all that stuff?

RES4

And you’ve got to be smart about or at least attempt to specify light fixtures and sighting and as best you can, given that often when you're working on the ocean the local contractors are aware of those things. So you can learn a lot from the local GC about any lessons they've learned as well. We try to learn as much as we can from every GC on every project. We do no matter where we are.

Prefab Review

That makes sense. Another thing we noticed is that you've obviously, as we said, built some homes in premium locations. One of the things we've had a mixed bag with is oftentimes in those locations you end up having to go through an HOA to build in those places. I'm not sure if that's an experience you've had. But if you have, which I'm guessing you have, do you have any tips for navigating that process?

RES4

Well an HOA isn't as difficult as some of the other environmental issues. You need to go through and get approvals but it's the same way. We're just hitting the local codes and zoning. It is first understanding what those constraints are. So with the HOA you find out what you can and cannot do and there's typically something written and even these days it's often posted on a website. But sometimes these things aren't explicit and so there needs to be some due diligence done to see what you can and cannot do - whether it's a slope of a roof or the exterior materials or there's a lot of communities that say you're not allowed to build a manufactured home. So whenever we've had to address that we've often just sort of presented it and had a discussion with the community board and say, “this is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it. This is why we're gonna build it in a factory. Why? Because we're gonna be on-site less. We're gonna disturb the neighbors less.” And so we've worked in a few areas where we've been able to flip it. The reason why they didn't want any prefab is because they all think they're ugly trailers right? But when you show them that's not what this is when you show them that this is something other, and we're using this technology for something that's greener and quicker and more cost-effective, then we typically get a unanimous buy-in.

Prefab Review

Yeah, that makes sense. We have a standard deck for almost exactly this reason, kind of explaining there will be people you can't hear building the home versus your neighbors in your neighbor's lot or at least less of that.

RES4

Yeah, there's still a lot of noise but there's less of it. Yes, exactly exactly.

Prefab Review

Maybe it'll last for a shorter period of time. Then the last question we get, this is actually more for sort of urban infill, we get a lot of people who want to build rooftop decks as a part of their modules. Especially in the Los Angeles area because someone wants to put an ADU in and they're like, “you know, I would love the extra bedroom or 2, or the chance to whatever, have my mother-in-law stay with us. But I don't want to give up the outdoor space in our relatively small yard.” We’ve actually seen a lot of resistance to this from certain modular and prefab builders. But I noticed that you've done it at least a number of times for some of the homes on your site. Are there any keys to kind of making that work just because again, it's something that we've seen pushback from in the past.

RES4

Yeah, well we design it. You know we don't ask them to do it. We show them how to do it. So a lot of the things when we started this, we got a lot of pushback as well and it took us time to gain the trust and confidence of the factories. And once we did that and they saw that we were working with them as opposed to trying to tell them what to do they opened up and listened to us and started to then embrace a number of the flash and bat system, the zip sighting, the open web joys, the high-velocity systems. You know, the custom ac slots, they were more open to working with us. So then we were able to provide the details and show them how this would work and they would continue to frame hammer nails and stuff like that. And after we were able to show them how that works several times than it really opened up the floodgates of how far they're willing to Bend. So we're not relying on them to figure it out. We're relying on them to execute it based on what they do best. And that's a really important thing for architects to learn. It's important to leverage your fulfillment partner for what they're able to do as opposed to expecting them to do something they've never done before especially when it's done in a factory. So most fulfillment partners aren't there to sort of figure stuff out. They're basically there to execute. So it's an important thing to know and if they don't typically do that, then it sometimes can take longer and be more difficult.

Prefab Review

Sounds good. Okay, so this has all been awesome. You certainly pass the fire around. So the final question, we ask this to everyone. What are you most excited about for your company or for the industry in the near future?

RES4

Well, we're in a very interesting situation which could be said of any generation. But the one we find ourselves in right now is we're lacking housing. There's an extreme lack of housing, much less “affordable housing”. And I think with this new and continued interest in prefabrication as you very well know, it's not a new thing. It's been around for a long time and it's always the sort of rebirth of prefab. But what's encouraging is that there's still traction even with some of the big boys going down like Blue homes and Tira and others. There's still traction and there's still interest and people are still pursuing it so what I find exciting is that there's still this incredible energy about it.

Prefab Review

Yeah.

RES4

And it's more than just architects that are interested and there are developers and VCs and there's interest bubbling which is fantastic. And everybody's getting into the space and while at the same time we need freaking housing, I think there's going to be a great opportunity and we've yet to tap into it because I think the efficiency of building off-site has yet to truly get in sync. And so I have great expectations. I have had them for the last twenty years but I will continue to have them. I think there's a lot of opportunities. I think there's sort of a perfect storm happening in terms of sustainability and efficiency. You know, I think there's no reason why we can't do large-scale, low-rise high density that are energy producers. In other words, a lot of our houses, a majority of all of our houses now have solar panels and geothermal co-generational systems and about ten years ago it with we started with about 6 houses, I think, that actually generated more power than they consumed. In fact, we did one that was completely off the grid but that gave us this sort of feeling. We're excited that this technology is becoming more available. In fact, we just put tesla shingles on a mid-century renovation. We've had clients that have been talking about them for years and years. But this is the first product we're actually and project. we're actually able to get a hold of them. So I'm excited. There's a lot of new things happening. There's a lot of momentum behind this and hopefully, we're gonna hit this tipping point soon of off-site construction low-rise high density and power generating housing. So we're producing and not consuming. I also think there's an opportunity to build fulfillment partners - meaning factories and train people. In other words, I believe we could set up factories around the country, building locally. Just in their particular areas as opposed to trying to design the house that's going to house everybody. But there's a way in which outside of every major metropolitan area we could probably develop a franchise if you will and a network of fabrication and training people in these factories to be plumbers and to be electricians and carpenters and cabinet makers that then could go off and have their own companies, sort of being part of the maintenance of ongoing homes that we need because everything's falling apart. Not only are we short 4,000,000,000 housing units, the ones that exist are shit. So there's a big opportunity. That's all I'm excited about.

Prefab Review

Yeah, that's definitely a very big opportunity and thank you for doing your part. We'll keep watching you and Resolution: 4 Architecture. For more information about Joseph and RES4 visit www.re4a.com and as always you can visit us anytime at prefabreview.com. Thanks again. Joseph.

RES4

Thanks, Michael.

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