Ep128[1/2] Dirk Ehnts: From mainstream to MMT

People Conversations by Citizens' Media TV

Welcome to episode 128 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Dirk Ehnts, about his personal journey to MMT, which happened only after obtaining a PhD in mainstream economics. One of Dirk's first hints that something was wrong, was discovering that was not representative of the world in which we actually live. Here are . He was also told by his professors that some of what is obviously true must be ignored, which only serves to further diverge the theory from the world it purports to explain. Only after receiving his PhD did he discover MMT which finally put all the pieces together. It did so in a way that is falsifiable, which means its main assertions are provable or disprovable by empirical evidence. (Here's a link to part two. A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found at the bottom of this post. I also interviewed Dirk in episodes and with Asker Voldsgaard.) Today in part one, Dirk and I also talk about how microeconomics and macroeconomics relate and are ultimately inseparable. We end with a question from Activist #MMT patron Chiel Harmsen, on the problems of the Eurozone and how to address them. Next week in part two, I ask Dirk questions circling around his new co-authored piece for the Gower Initiative, called . I start with some very basic questions about how and why central banks maintain stability of the payment system. I then ask him to describe the specific mechanics of how the central bank raising the overnight interest rate target results in millions becoming unemployed – and ultimately more exploitable. And now, onto my conversation with Dirk Ehnts. Enjoy. Audio chapters 3:49 - Hellos, terrible fives, new paper summarizing UK exchequer 6:22 - Can you tell your personal story from mainstream to MMT? 9:29 - Paul Krugman's new economic geography theory 15:14 - Knapp's state theory of money and "reading between the lines" 17:45 - The issuer is above, and creates, economic law 20:54 - Did mainstream feel off while you were in school? 25:29 - No macroeconomic accounting in mainstream macroeconomics 28:31 - When did you read Keynes and how did it affect your education? 30:47 - Did you have an instinct that something was off, or did something specific trigger your skepticism? 32:12 - "I have to incorporate money", second time 33:32 - MMT is falsifiable (where does money come from?) 35:04 - Companies move where wages are (and demand is) high. (Fallacy of composition) 37:14 - Macroeconomics is the study of the systemic effects of microeconomic behavior 39:28 - The desire to lower wages is microeconomic but is so impactful it threatens our species. So how is that not macroeconomic? 43:13 - The consequences of accepting MMT 44:45 - Anti-MMT sentiment in Europe 49:00 - Positive consequences of accepting MMT 52:17 - Patron question from Chiel Harmsen: Problems in the EuroZone. 1:00:35 - Start of academic questions 1:04:06 - Duplicate of introduction, but with no background music (for listeners with sensitive ears)