Daniel Zhu - Stance Elements - Entrepreneur, Social Media Expert, Dance Media, and Bboy Olympics - Noise of the Broke Boys Episode 016
Manage episode 279346360 series 2835172
Daniel Zhu, the creator of the popular social media channel, Stance Elements, discusses his insight on how his channels blew up on social media, social media marketing, the bboy scene, breakdancing in the Olympics, and the dance scenes similarity to the Esports scene.
A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.
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[Music]
in this episode the creator of Stan's
elements an online movement arts
platform sits down to discuss the
history of its creation we discuss
various topics related to digital media
marketing videography hip hop and
entrepreneurship I had a great time
picking his brain about his side of
breaking in social media that I don't
know much about please enjoy the episode
with mr. Daniels ooh hello
welcome everybody to the slow subtle
collapse of society in podcast form this
is north of the broke boys I am your
host Kurt the hurt and today I have a
special guest his name is Daniel zu he
is mr. Stan's the creator of Stan's the
CEO of Stan I don't know what is your
title grand wizard of Grand Wizard just
call me a creators the Creator witch
so Stan's is I consider it like in urban
arts like media platform but what what
do you what do you call it we call it a
movement arts platform movement arts
platform interesting ok yep so that
basically is saying like
I guess you guys do dance you guys film
tricking you guys do yeah anything your
body you've in some way can move and
then in artistic format of weather so
it's not just dance it's just it's
really men arts yeah I guess is the best
name for it he kind of made it that way
because we wanted to just you know not
back ourselves in a corner with one
topic yeah yeah okay and so the first
time I think I saw stance was it was on
your YouTube channel in I don't know if
that's where you guys started but I
think that's when I first saw and you
guys were posting a lot of footage from
b-boy battles and stuff and now you've
kind of grown to this social media
platform and then yeah and then filming
all these other different events and now
it's like I see like literally every
large dance event you guys are there and
it's like I don't watch footage too
often but when I do I immediately go to
youtube type in stance and then look at
that look at what you guys have so I
would say that you know seems to me like
you probably have the biggest or at
least the most successful media platform
in this space which I'm curious like how
that makes you feel like what the
journey to get there it just seems so
crazy it's uh it's a lot of momentum
yeah it's a Activ that's I can say it's
you know you start something small and
now it's just you have a lot of momentum
and then you know it feels weird like
you go a couple of days without post
anything keeper like so hmm what's going
on yeah yeah and so you just kind of
ride that and keep going and going
yeah yeah yeah you know and then
eventually get to where you are where I
think now you're is it your face but
like I don't I think between all your
platforms you've got like over a million
kind of subscribers or a couple billions
yeah a couple million wow that's great
so I mean that's that's crazy to think
that that came from breaking and now
it's to where you are now is just great
because you know when I started breaking
this was like events were barely a thing
you won an event and they were like
here's a some gas money and stuff and
like it was the ghettoest shit ever and
so to see it now to where you guys
there's a legitimate media company out
there that is traveling the world
filming all these huge events their
sponsors involved with the events and
stuff it's just crazy to see that in my
lifetime I was able to see that I mean
it's really a short time in a way I mean
I've been breaking less than 20 years
probably think about 18 19 years so to
see it happen within that span it's like
crazy it feels like we were in the Stone
Age compared to to now and so like I
don't know it's just when I when I look
at Stan's it's like it makes me proud as
a b-boy to see that we've gone so far to
you know be like a legitimate um I don't
know what you'd call us but more than
just some people rolling around on the
floor legitimate movement it's a
legitimate movement yeah I mean at least
it's being recognized as that now yeah
we I think all of us always considered a
legitimate form but you know your
parents are like rolling on the floor
and shit yeah yeah that's our biggest I
think I think every time we create
something major or stance or something
that we always think about people like
our parents people that don't understand
the dance and we're like okay how can we
reach these kind of people yes there's
more of these those kind of people than
they are dancers oh yeah yeah and so
we're like okay we the more non dance
people or non people associated with the
scene that get addicted to this mmm
you know the more momentum we get yeah
yeah and and I do think that that is
gonna play a huge part in the the later
success of this culture as more people
get involved with it see it fall in love
with it and continue to follow it and
hopefully participate in it not that
they have to but I think you'll see you
know right now the participation rate is
from mostly dancers but I think we're
going to start seeing participation from
the like viewers now you
no like legitimate fans and stuff like I
kind of compared to like skateboarding
or something you know we're you know
you'll watch it on TV as on like the X
Games and you're like dude this stuff is
crazy
skateboarding Mme Mme yeah exactly no
anything like there's a big boxing fight
this weekend mm-hmm I mean everyone the
online is talking about but who the hell
really boxes uh-huh yeah you know but
they're all fans yeah yeah I mean it's
like yeah a lot of the fans the they'll
take a boxing class or whatever but
they're not like some freaking hardcore
in the disguising everybody but it's
like they're talking about anyways yeah
it's like it's a casual fan casual not
in the sense of that they don't know
what's going on in the sport but casual
in the sense that they're not in the
ring punching each other oh I think
we're gonna see a lot more of that in
Breaking and I do think that you guys
are kind of a hinge point of making that
happen
mm-hm and I know that there's a few
other creators out there that are also
doing a similar thing to you guys but I
see you guys that's probably the biggest
and also the catalyst to I guess making
what they're doing happen as well it's
like I really see you guys as the ones
that paved the way to make it happen I
don't know if you feel that way but I
mean I'm a little ice I came from I came
from the other channel to strife that's
right and that literally did pave the
way that's right yes Drive yeah I guess
they yeah but you were involved with
that right and I guess yes like once
once strife kind of whenever went
wherever it went you kind of took it to
the next level and continued to to push
it to where it is now so I don't know
it's just it's just cool to see that now
mm-hmm
changing topics uh I'm curious how you
actually got involved in the hip-hop
scene the dancing cuz I know you're from
South Dakota which yes like all I can
think of from there is like oil fields
and like snow is that right
like I don't see hip-hop is something
being up farms farms yeah there's yeah
pretty much there wasn't really much
hip-hop at all yeah
but I got I got into the scene because
of college okay yeah and you went to
college out there or no I went to
college in a university Wisconsin okay
there's probably not a lot of b-boys
there either actually I have a friend
who's going to school in Wisconsin now
he's in med school and he says there's
not a lot of people so imagine there's
probably more than South Dakota there's
a lot more than South Dakota
I mean Wisco Wisconsin you got the
benefit of you got the Milwaukee scene
yeah that's right you got the Chicago
scene okay they're all within an hour to
drive away so you know when I started I
good friends with like motion disorders
yeah yeah okay you know Rick heads Rick
heads
you know Chicago tribe Chicago Tribune
yeah yeah yeah so but no college was you
know you see you hear about these like
breaking clubs that they have in college
and that's how I started you know
that's tight ya know I have a lot of
friends that did the same thing I mean
one I went to UC Davis I was already
breaking before them but like once I got
there one of my friends he started he
used to do the Warriors games with me
actually he started a club and I was
kind of just a bum and I was like I'm
gonna really be a part of I mean I
wanted to be a part of yeah but I was
like kind of like how about you do the
work like come and break but he built it
he built the club up and he did a lot of
stuff with it and like introduced so
many people to the dance and I look back
and I'm like oh man I wish I could have
been more involved with that now it's
not been so I guess selfish
cuz the back then I was just like oh I
don't care about this I just want to
break yeah but seeing seeing now that
there's a lot of guys that started then
and kept going
I mean think is really cool and and and
that I'm seeing that happen more often
now is like when people are going to
universities they're like being
introduced to a lot of new things and
hip hop is one of them in fact now hip
hop is kind of being taught in some
universities as like a subject yeah like
a curriculum yeah there's a yeah
I know a couple people that do that I
mean even here in LA you got
I think UCLA and UC Riverside can
swiftly he teaches okay I didn't know
that yeah Wow
yeah though I know my friend Serge from
beets and pieces he teaches out in them
in the Bay Area couple schools I think
um and then there's another guy who's I
think in Chicago area who does it yeah I
mean it's starting to get a lot bigger I
think why not does it - yep all ski Paul
ski okay yeah so yeah it's yeah it just
blows my mind to think about like that
like those guys were there like ones you
know 20 years ago rolling on the ground
yeah they're like oh yeah that's cool
but you know it's just rolling on the
ground but now it's like some stuff
getting taught in university so it's I
don't know it's just cool it's cool to
see that that can change we're
definitely in a time where yeah I guess
hip hip hop culture is being more coming
more to the forefront of I don't know
community pop culture I guess is the
best way to say it
mm-hmm right before it was such an
underground movement and now it's now
it's a university course if that was
offered nowadays and I was still in
school I would totally take it yeah I
probably would do just cuz it's fun to
hear the different viewpoints on this
culture because you know like I grew up
in in Sacramento you know I know you
know somewhat history of everything but
I know it from the point of view in
Sacramento so go into a university
learning it from maybe someone who's
from New York or whatever in you know in
Kent Swift's case hearing where he's
coming from it's like hearing all these
perspectives it gives you a better
understanding of like what what this
culture really is yeah and I think
definitely people who only know hip-hop
music
coming into a class like that would gain
so much stuff because most of my friends
that only know hip-hop through music
they don't know anything about like how
how breaking really helped create that
music in a way and I guess they don't
maybe understand how direct that that
was you know in terms of like the only
reason a break really exists is because
a DJ was like oh I want to see that
dancer go off yeah let me replay this
part of the song and then oh let me rap
to it okay oh now that's hip-hop music
oh dope that's like that direct
connection I don't think a lot of people
understand that and so I'm happy to see
that now there's that's becoming more
the forefront of the hip hop Coleman so
hopefully hopefully casual music
listeners start you know understanding
that too so but anyway so some so from
South Dakota to Wisconsin and then now
to LA were you in any place before
between there yeah okay so I was so in
between college and here in LA I've been
in a bunch of places actually uh been in
Washington DC okay then in West Africa
nice piece of court been in Alaska okay
I've been to from Alaska up into Korea
mm-hmm South Korea that was not North
Korea no you know you can't not allowed
in North Korea
but been to South Korea that was purely
on the fact that I just wanted to
experience the dance culture there okay
I got a job just like his win oh you
know that's man that's that's crazy to
like to just go oh man I'm gonna pick up
everything I'm gonna move to Korea and
like you know just for the dance that's
tight yeah yeah yeah and then and then
now here and then to Minnesota and then
now here in LA so I've been bebop in
quite a bit and so where did Stan's fit
in with that or I guess Drive TV and
then Stan's where did that fit in like
when did that start for you like where
were you
2008 strife started
and that was all because of my college
friends okay my friends from college at
the university Wisconsin we're like hey
they recognize the need right they were
like wheat there's not an official
channel that provides high quality
footage yeah we'll do it yeah you know
and they moved here to LA - okay and
they they're the ones to film background
so what I was a career at that time and
they're like Dan you're in Korea Korea
seems really big can you get a camera
and film for us oh and I'm like sorry
let me let's do this Wow so you kind of
like fell into the film world right so
like they just said here's like you know
go get a camera and you have did before
then have you ever thought that you
would be doing any kind of filming Oh
what No uh sort of I am prior to being
in Korea I was in Africa and Alaska and
um I you know I had a camera and I kept
I did like blogs mm-hmm I had a head of
this thing called a live journal way
back then okay um and by you saying uh
yeah basically just showing people my
life yeah in other countries and it was
fun so I was thinking you know what it's
just be like that in video form okay
yeah I but I didn't go to video school
or anything I my first Kim was a flip
phone those like flip cameras in Korea
and that's where all the Korean strife
footage was car you serious I kid you
not
that's funny oh man I remember going to
a jam back when uh
like cell phones just started having
cameras and they were like you can't but
ya know dude that's crazy they're
filming I mean yeah that's that's really
like the beginnings of YouTube I think
all the footage on there was like
2008-2009 around that time yeah it was
like flip yeah yeah that's yeah but it
was like those big Korean events that
you never see yeah yeah yeah he had the
gamblers you had the gene shows you had
the ti peas you know like old school
rivers old school like everyone wanted
to watch that stuff yeah
that yeah that was me and so you were
the you were the pioneer of putting a
Korean footage out I guess I mean I
guess there's a couple other guys that
were doing it but that's I guess in the
YouTube era that was you Lee you huh so
interesting so then from strife it when
did Stan's come about so ideally we
wanted strife to go to where Stan's was
okay but all the rest of my friends just
kind of lost interest in filming okay
they yeah they they either moved or they
just didn't find interest in breaking or
you know they had other interests yeah
you know and so I was the only one and
so that's when I created Stan's mainly
because you know if you know just for
business purposes you wanted to be an
actual owner I wasn't an actual owner of
strife I guess just helping out at that
time yes okay so you're just you're an
employee of strife and then you you know
I guess you had the vision to create it
to to where you took to where stances
now and so you said okay well I need to
do this if you guys aren't gonna help me
do it
exactly then build stance up owner and
now you have like a couple guys with you
right it sucks starting from scratch
again with like zero views and yeah zero
people it'll come but it came and uh you
know you still keep your real life
connections you still keep you you know
you're friends with this event organizer
with your friends with all these other
b-boys and then definitely like when we
started Stan's a lot of people that were
filmed with me that I recruited to
strife came along okay you know so
that's why we had mad tech out in the
bay he came along to Anderson out in LA
he had my friends out in the UK okay and
then I had another friends in Korea so
we covered a great portion of the world
scene yeah without you know me
physically have to travel there yeah but
you still travel a lot I switch out
quite a bit yeah yeah but you got you
got a good team that's we have a good
team like you know a good standing
yeah good understanding yet
this this whole vision alive and running
and so like I guess how do you see it
expanding do you see it expanding more
to like getting more employees going to
more countries um I've been always
cautious on expanding mainly because
it's hard to keep quality control mm-hmm
you know you have you need to have the
same vision and then at the same time
you need to have like a certain type of
teamwork involved that's you know if
this whole stance fill thing wasn't fun
in the first place I wouldn't be doing
it yeah yeah you know the less so it has
still has to be fun for us yeah for sure
yeah right and so yeah we do we do
expand we were trying to I think I think
at the at this moment we're pretty good
filming events around the world I think
what we are working on next are just
quality stories that you might not hear
hmm within not only dance but other
dancer interests yeah yeah yeah and then
as well as other area
Chandra's that we have a big interest in
such as tricking tricking yeah yeah I
think the tricking is the next big the
next big thing yeah okay yeah um it's
like with all these new countries coming
in I imagine it gets hard to really
juggle that and so yeah it seems like
expanding your company to cover all this
stuff is like probably on the forefront
of like making stance successful and I
guess yeah training your team to you
know keep that same quality and then I
guess like figuring out what works with
these new things like tricking and stuff
because I imagine the way you film and
cover a b-boy event is probably not how
you cover a tricking event maybe there's
some crossover but like there's you
definitely gotta like get involved with
the scene to really understand like
what's okay what's not and and then like
just go full in and then and then
understand that I guess maybe it's not
such a big test but I'm just imagining
me if I was a videographer which I'm not
I'm terrible at this kind of thing but
like I would I would I guess I would
know breaking because I'm a b-boy and I
can like know okay I don't want to jump
in the middle of the circle and like
getting this dudes away but like
tricking I think I would just freakin go
to the back of the room cuz I ain't
trying to get kicked you know what I
mean so it's like but I'm sure that
that's not the best way to get footage
so it's like figuring out where you got
a stand-in like you know what's not
gonna mess them up when they're doing
their thing I feel like that's probably
core to like what you guys need to do
for that there's a lot of crossover it's
pretty good
mainly because though uh you know when
we decided stands to be a movement arts
page it's because we looked at ourselves
and were like well we like dance what
else do you like to do I like to go to a
gymnastics gym and mess around and jump
around okay
let's add that in what else do you like
to do this person likes to skateboard
okay let's add I did what I'll see you
know when we think and so everyone has
like a different interest really draw
upon different influences and likewise
like people trickers and gymnasts they
like to watch dance too
yeah yeah so you're like okay okay this
there's so much crossover between all
these different things I mean like for
one thing I think like music production
and stuff I think it actually crosses
over with dance a lot more than people
think it does like I've started getting
into music production a lot no I know
Tech has too and it's just like I think
as dancers we understand music a lot and
so producing music becomes a lot easier
than I think someone who came in cold
and I would think that I would think the
crossover between a producer coming into
dance would probably be the same I mean
because they obviously understand music
to a very high degree they might not
know how to move their body quite the
same way but that's just a matter of
training a little bit to figure it out
just same same thing
with a b-boy trying a dancer trying to
learn music production it's like you got
to learn some of the music theory and
everything but like once you understand
the tools it's kind of just like get
yourself into like a creative flow state
and just let it go
correct that's like how that's how I've
always been I mean IIIi was a painter a
long time ago and um and that's like how
I would always paint is all just kind of
like get into the mode of painting my
mom my mom is an artist so she kind of
taught me how to do this and then once I
came into dancing it was like the same
kind of thing once I learned like a few
fundamental moves it was just like you
get into this creative flow state and
it's just like the same thing really but
you're just using different tools in a
way so yeah um I don't know I I imagine
there's that that's the same thing with
like filmmaking too like that you kind
of you guys get some kind of creative
you get into some creative groove and
then it just turns into like hours and
hours and hours of you like making this
a really cool project or something
that's totally editing that's basically
what I've been doing for the entire week
editing pretty much yeah yeah I I've
edited a few videos in my life and they
suck a lot but it's yeah it feels the
same way that's the way to get better
you suck a bunch and then you keep on
sucking and yeah yeah just keep doing it
yeah yeah
there's some good quotes on that but I
can't remember but yeah basically yeah
it's the best way to stop sucking I look
at my old videos I'm like what was I
thinking yeah but that was a good idea
so I'll take that little bit I look at
the pot the old podcasts I've I recorded
I'm like what the hell was I thinking
but my god it's getting me to where I
want to be then you're thinking like
people really watched what I did dude
actually I haven't even posted a single
one because I keep looking back and
going oh man
like I'm starting to figure out how to
do podcasting a lot better and I've been
figuring out like how to film better too
and so like now I'm looking at it like
oh I don't want to release these old
ones cuz like I straight-up just didn't
give it I like would walk in I mean like
I had good equipment but yeah I would
come in I
didn't have like a studio I mean I still
don't really have a studio they just
have a freaking blank wall with some
stuff on it but like I straight up would
just bring my equipment to like a
friend's house they wouldn't have
anywhere to put it so we would like
record on the floor and so it was ghetto
as hell but I'm just like oh you know
what that brought us and it's not like
the conversation wasn't good I think it
was good it's just like if you don't see
any video you're like okay this was cool
maybe it was done in a real studio but
you see the footage in like all these
sitting on the freaking carpet so but
yeah I don't know yeah humble roots I
guess is the best way to call it mm-hmm
and I guess you guys have your own your
own humble roots as well so where do you
see yourself going next I mean like you
obviously have a vision of where stance
is going but like what other hobbies are
you into and like how does that involve
with like the rest of your life and like
where do you see that taking you I mean
I see you have a league of Legends like
Keith I you know I I love eSports yup I
love eSports obviously League of Legends
is huge yeah overwatch is huge you know
it's a it's a big scene yeah um and
there's actually crossover between
eSports and like a movement arts - yeah
big I mean it's I mean competitive scene
I would think that there's like a lot of
crossover in terms of like many
different they how people are reacting
to each other some merchants hold on so
eSports um I don't know a lot about
eSports but it's like it's really
intrigued me to see where it is because
it's kind of like I kind of look at it
it's like breaking in a way because like
again when I started playing video games
like Super Smash Brothers when I was
like in middle school or whatever I was
like oh cool we're just gonna go over to
my friends house and just play or
whatever and now it's like there's
legitimate competitions for legitimate
money
it's like broadcast
on the internet and has started around
the same time it started around the same
time so it's like the scenes are kind of
growing I think it's really it comes
down to this digital age I think is it's
it's allowing everything to get around
to more people but it's just so cool to
see all these new communities of you
know competitive sports competitive
whatever out there and and you know
something that I never would have
thought would happen or I like I just
don't know anything about seeing it if
you look at our stance produce live
streams with the commentators and mm-hmm
the way they talk to people and stuff
like that it comes from eSports oh yeah
I kid you not it's um I look at League
of Legends I look at Street Fighter
livestreams I'm like I want that settle
well I want that's it I like how they're
engaging with the audience I you know
then that and that's where totally our
influences come interested you know they
look like they have a somewhat similar
budget to us that's interesting you know
the ugly bar I I'm influenced by eSports
a lot and then you know I'm also
interested in you know other things like
you look at other influences of eSports
how many dance emojis there are in
eSports no no like for tonight
everyone's in everyone's doing this for
tonight moves right
I actually I have a theory that like the
kids now that are learning to break you
know that are young like elementary
school age are gonna start doing
Fortnight moves in as actual breaking
moves I think that's they already you
know yeah they probably already do they
already do that I filmed the battle to
it I filmed the battle two years ago and
this guy just flipped up in the air and
just laying on his side and then did his
little floss move or something yeah it's
like okay it was it was fun it was fun
to see yeah but they already do and you
know it's uh if it gets them hooked to
the scene then yeah yeah it's yeah I
think it's a good thing to see that
stuff I mean there's a lot of like
breaking purists and stuff that go like
oh it's not it's decreasing the rawness
of it but I think that those are just
like old people that
salty or whatever I think seeing well my
perspective is that the if you think
that that's gonna degrade its rawness I
think you weren't raw in the first place
I think that you're you're you're just
you're trying to crap on someone else's
parade this this person sees something
and now they're invested into the scene
I think that's a good thing
and period really like I can't see a
reason why that would be a bad thing
that some what some new people are being
introduced into the dance every every
generation basically every decade that
or so there's there's always like dance
related media out there or names related
trends that that may seem cheesy at the
beginning yeah but it gets young kids
interested yeah you know I've seen their
stories of like really high competitive
dancers that started with you got served
oh yeah and like that movie if you
really saw at me and that was super
cheesy it was a cheese dude but they
started and now they are at the top of
their scene right now and they are
fucking wrong yeah yeah beat Street is
the cheesiest movie ever you know that's
a hot take but battle me Beach Street is
so cheesy it's a dope movie sure but
it's cheesy as hell breaking is breaking
and breaking to electric Boogaloo are
also two of the worst movies ever
I mean cheesy in terms of were worse
than cheesy movies even Flashdance dude
that was probably the first time
breaking was on like a big screen that
movie's cheesy as hell it was a catalyst
and got people to catalyst yup yes so I
mean yeah I don't know I think it's um I
think it's it's great to see that and I
guess with the with the oncoming
Olympics in 2024 which is in Paris I
believe yeah now you're gonna see it on
another stage to a whole new audience I
think we're gonna also see a huge influx
of new b-boys as well there already is
because Olympics yeah and from the the
Junior Olympics right from the June
it's like I try traveling around the USA
just the USA itself
a lot of my friends as dance studios
have had influx of students that just
want to learn yeah you know so many
little kids are enrolling in their dance
studios and it's great yeah I think it's
great too and and that's just the USA
you know Japan is another monster Russia
is another monster China especially I
mean you're just getting kids enrolling
everywhere yeah and these little kids
can fly and yeah you can fly I didn't
even break when he you know he's like I
didn't start breaking the laws maybe
like 14 you got these 10 year olds that
are like flying and stuff so I'm like
dang dude
what is breaking gonna be like when they
are my age I'm 32 I mean maybe maybe
their bodies just gonna be broken but
like if they're 10 years old and can do
like twice as much as I can do dang dude
I don't know I don't know what to say
but they're gonna be crazy yes yes so I
think that's exciting to see that
so I guess once the Olympics rolls
around in 2024 we're gonna see some very
high-level stuff there and I get you
know what I'm curious about actually
with the Olympics and I don't know if
you would be the person to know this
since because you are like a it on the
advisory board or whatever right and so
I'm curious like how they how they plan
to actually do this is it like gonna be
battles as like were used to in the
breaking communities they're gonna be
more like a showcase kind of thing like
like a show or something I know they're
doing what like a 1 one-on-one kind of
situation and then I guess I'm curious
about like how it's being judged and I
don't know maybe maybe yeah so the
catalyst of the Olympics is WDS F world
dance sport Federation mm-hmm
they're the main dance sport you know
organizational group around the world
and they like oversee all the dancing
there so like salsa and correct yeah
yeah
and luckily they've organ they did the
Youth Olympics two years ago yeah last
year they did two other events the WD SF
championship in China and then you had
the world urban games on Budapest so
okay it's and you there's already videos
online of those events okay we we
covered a couple of them and it's it's
just it's really just and they have a
judging system they have you know just
like any normal dance event that you
have like the judges that we're used to
you have the competitors that we were
used to hmm things like that yeah the
DJs and the music that we're used to so
it really isn't any different it isn't
any different than other breaking events
that we have seen okay I guess the only
thing that only difference is that
there's so for me I feel there's a lot
of rounds it's okay
like oh my gosh it was like the ready mo
group stage and then you have a tough 16
to 8 and your people those dancers were
tired those dancers are tired so were
they doing like five round battles every
time or something or it was like it was
like two three round battles every time
starting from group stages I actually
missed that because when I first started
breaking that's how it was it was like
you would go a crap ton of rounds and
your rounds wouldn't be like as long as
they are now and so yeah I mean I think
battles were just longer I don't know
and then now it's like you see one round
battles which to me feels kind of weird
I don't know it kind of works I guess
with what we're doing now but it's it
still feels weird to me but I don't know
that I think that's cool that they're
doing more rounds but it definitely puts
you to the test I can imagine you gotta
be an athlete you have that stamina yeah
you gotta be a gold medal athlete to get
that gold medal yeah yeah but I mean
yeah I guess that comes with the
territory
yeah but no the organisationally your
all the stuff that you see is online
already Youth Olympics in 2022 gonna be
in Dakar Senegal that would be another
warm-up for the Olympics in 24 but I
think
yeah having Paris be the forefront of
this is gonna be great
yeah cuz that's the first time I don't
will be a part of it right yep and it'll
be most likely you'll be they haven't
decided yet already but it's most likely
gonna be one-on-ones okay just keep it
simple
actually I know I know we want to see
crew battles but yeah the first time I
feel it's too much we got is just start
with one on ones first
yeah yeah yeah what what do you like
more as a sidenote
crew battles are won on well Holly I
love crew battles do you know I've
always loved crew battles and another
hot take is like I freakin love watching
routines and know there's something like
purist b-boys that are like routine suck
and stuff but like I don't know I've
always loved routines I'm the crew I
used to be a part of his flexible Flav
oh you guys had great routines yeah dude
we like we're kind of on the I don't
know innovators I guess of the routine
game and so like I don't know I've
always loved doing routines and stuff
and just watching new stuff coming so
like you know I was inflexible Flav
until 2020 no it's 20 2007 I think is
when I stopped 2008 maybe 2009 I don't
know I don't know one of those dates but
like before then it was like we were
always making these routines and like we
would see another crew like starting to
do the same thing once we stopped or
once I got out of the crew then you
started seeing more crews like jinjo and
stuff coming out at that point I think
rivers and gamblers were already like
huge on the routine game and so it's I
don't know a top 9 huge in the routine
game so I don't know I missed that cuz
you don't see it so much anymore I think
everybody used to cut mad cuz all those
crews are winning every I love crew
battles because like like Saints like
same example your crew you had when your
crew members
well associate chram it was dizzy right
oh yeah he was he was not really flex
play but he was like he would enter a
lot of battles he understood the the
Flex Flay battle
yeah ala D which is like you're not
going you're you you it's like there's a
certain way to win
yeah yeah right and whether it is
through teamwork or whether it's it's
not the hardest move it's just how you
do it yeah and that's what and that's
what made like crew battles so more much
more intriguing you have someone do a
crazy move and the other team will
respond with something totally different
yeah hmm what the routines what I always
liked about routines was that it was
another element to control the battle
yeah like with one-on-ones
your arsenal is kind of your limitation
to controlling the battle like you see
this guy attack you in a certain way you
can do a lot of things to to respond
right but like with a routine you can
almost like bulldoze them a little bit
because they throw something at you even
if they threw a routine at you then you
turn around and eat and you can go
alright here's this crazy trick boom
here's another crazy trick here's this
really cool choreography set and now
boom flip over BAM there's a dude and
he's just gonna like do what a normal
b-boy would do in like go off and
respond to everything that you threw at
him it's it's just kind of like extra
icing on the cake Joe to say that you
know we we're controlling this battle
now you know and so that's why some of
the greatest battles in in history I
think have always been like crew battles
where you see something like you'll see
one crew really controlling it then all
of a sudden boom it's like the tide
totally shifts and I feel like a lot of
b-boys maybe felt that routines were
like hacks in a way it gets to refer to
like eSports like they're using hacks
now because it's like it's so effective
to like to draw another crew into your
into your own into your strategy to win
if they can't respond with routines well
and usually crews can't it's like oh no
I'm gonna lose now you know you got to
throw some really crazy thing you got to
have pocket take every freaking round
after that - like really respond oh so
it's like I don't know I definitely
think they they felt like it was hacks
but but you can tell bad routines you
can yeah there's definitely
you can beat bad routines with a good
soul around yeah sure but it's hard to
be a really good routine with a solo and
I think that just goes to show you that
like that's how powerful a good routine
really is and so I think to embrace it
and say okay I'm gonna use this as part
of my strategy is is is something that I
think the whole community was onto
something when it was really sparking
off and then when there was this big
surge in people like not liking and I
think it kind of killed it a little bit
so but I'm seeing it happen more so I'm
excited to see maybe like some crew
battles in the future with maybe even in
the Olympics yeah I like watching crew
battles this year you can this you're
gonna have five and five freestyle
session okay cool pseudo crew battle
yeah I went my personal favorite event
to film is battle year okay I love
watching battle year do you like it cuz
of the shows uh the shows are cool I
like seeing my favorite shows actually
are seeing countries that don't get a
chance to be on stage oh yeah like so
you get to see the Senegal's you get to
see like Madagascar you can oh yeah yeah
like country said alright normally on
the stage see it those are beautiful fun
and then I like to see you know
sometimes I like to see the battles
where you have a country that you didn't
think of make it you know last year last
year Venezuela came all like Venezuela
ya know when two years ago was like
Thailand uh-huh you know like that those
are funny yeah whenever I see stuff like
that I'm like dude they got breaking
over there and I mean like that's kind
of an ignorant thing to say but
especially because my brother Vince
sanity he's he teaches he has all his
YouTube videos yeah and he he always
shows me like where his videos are being
watched in a lot of them are like in
these crazy third-world countries I've
never heard of you know and so but then
seeing them come to like the stage of
battle of the year and you're like oh
these guys are like really good - yeah
crazy so
I don't know what I guess what in battle
I don't really haven't really seen a lot
of battle of the year recently but do
they still do those shows the show
yup cases okay cuz I always thought that
that was such an interesting way to like
weed out crews - you're like top four
they probably do like top eight they do
top six now 600 that word the first two
crews no I'm gonna buy Oh
gonna buy and then you have four
wildcard interesting so then the wild
carves battle and then they link up with
the first first place in second place
crews tie okay that's that's crazy yeah
that's because yeah I used to be just
top four yeah and you know they came all
that way
yeah and what do you want to see more
battle yeah no there was a there's a
story I think of like cuz the US was
banned for a long time for coming
because I think one of the crews I'm not
gonna say who was but they came and
apparently like destroyed like a hotel
room because they didn't make it to the
battles and thought that they should
have and so then they were like you know
u.s. is banned and then I think it took
like good five years or something to let
the u.s. back in so not that not that
they should have done that or anything
like that's definitely a bad way to act
but you know now you know having more
ability to make it at us top categories
I think it's like nice because because
really like breaking has expanded so
much you're gonna have so many people
ending I mean on all these big
competitions I'm always seeing like four
hundred people entering or something and
it's like geez man that's crazy I'm used
to like 10 people and 20 people entering
or whatever you know it's just more more
interest more more people interested in
you know yeah and you haven't gone
cheyna yet yeah you've got full days 13
hours of prelims Wow
that's I mean that's insane yeah I mean
yeah I guess yeah I guess that's another
topic by itself I went to ibe and they
had a whole day of like
prelims I remember and it took a long
freakin time it wasn't 13 hours but feel
like it was like five or six hours or
something like that just like kind of in
the same it's like a jam in itself you
know yeah kind of like you gotta win
this Jam out of like fifty people and
you know they have like a bunch of
different groups of that you gotta win
that and then you're going against all
these other people that won their group
of fifty the next day or whatever that's
that's insane so but but it's an
exciting time I think for breaking for
sure going back to the Olympics I had
another question about it because like
so you're saying that Olympics is you
know for the most parts as far as you
can see it's very similar to the events
that we are used to but I'm also I'm
curious about like the rules that they
have in terms of like who can
participate because I know there's like
you know in others in other Olympic
sports there's a lot of stuff like
doping in the event in drugs and stuff
and like I don't know not to put the the
breaking scene under the bus but there's
a lot of people that use drugs and so
I'm like I feel like the Olympic
Committee would probably be like you
know what I I don't know I'm not really
familiar with drug testing I don't know
much about it but I would assume there's
some kind of requirement I mean luckily
the Olympic start this year 2020 and
similar sports such as skateboarding
will be there for the first time is it
really yup skateboarding Oh surfing so
everything - yep so just keep your eyes
open that's if you see what happens yeah
I mean you can't say that people that
skateboard don't do drugs yeah I mean
it's prominent in I imagine every cloudy
in sport but yes sir us snowboarding
like oh sure you know so just keep your
eyes open see what happens and yeah
basically like skateboarding is great
because you you you you take a look at
what its gonna happen at the Olympics
yeah and you're like okay similarly
that's
what will happen to breaking in 2024
mm-hmm in terms of you know media and
yeah coverage and things like that yeah
I I guess I'm I'm a little bit scared
because like I know that the breaking
scene kind of needs to be on its best
behavior a little bit when that comes
around or else you know the Olympics
could just be like ah these guys are too
hard to work with so you know I know it
and the way the reason I'm bringing this
up is cuz like I know like the stuff
that happened with like you deaf and how
Steve Graham decided to just kind of
come cancel the whole thing really and
that was really kind of a decision I
mean it was a personal decision for him
but a lot of it came from he was getting
so much backlash from the community and
stuffiness like I don't want to deal
with this anymore
yeah and unfortunately he you know had
to just terminate the the whole set of
events and and I guess really his
business so I I don't want that to
happen when the Olympics comes down
because I think that that'll be just a
huge punch to the face of the whole
community because there's so many I
would say like 95% of the community
wants to see this once I see the
community grow wants to see more people
involved want to see fans want to see
just I guess it in the Olympics it's
like an accomplishment to the scene to
see that happen but then the small 5% of
people that are like I'm too raw for
this could easily ruin it for everybody
and so I and that's why I'm I was asking
the question about drug test cuz it's
you know I want everybody to to have the
right information going into it if
they're thinking about competing in it
just be aware that maybe that is gonna
be something that's involved with it's
okay if you're a drug addict get clean
dude not just for the Olympics but for
your own health but so but yeah I think
being the scene being on his best
behavior I think will be the best way to
really like prove that we are worth it
because I think showing showing the
Olympics not that we need to like prove
anything but I do think that first
impressions matter a lot and this is
gonna be one of the first impressions I
mean I guess we saw it with the Junior
Olympics but I imagine you know these
kids you know they have their parents to
like stop acting up yeah but we're gonna
have a lot of adults that I feel I feel
we're pretty good on a big stage I mean
yeah I think so too you take a look at
big stage events like BC ones there yeah
everyone's on their best behavior
yeah you know every I've just heard a
lot more chatter about the Olympics cuz
there's just a lot of like people going
oh it's run by you know whatever salsa
dance whatever and like I don't know
what you're talking about but you know
it seems to me like it's gonna be like
any other event just you know now it's
got the backing of a big organization
and it's on a bigger it's on this
different stage I guess yeah but it's
it's business as usual
I would imagine same kind of music same
kind of judges same kind of thing
everything you would expect just
different audience Madrid you know or a
mixture of the new audience and the
existing audience so I don't know it's
exciting and a little scary I think I
don't know I mean I'm I might just be 2
or being worried for no reason but but
like I said just take a look at snow
skateboarding this year yeah and
there'll be something similar yeah ok I
guess skateboarding has been on a large
stage for such a long time I mean with
the X Games and stuff so I think a lot
of people I mean in a way skateboarding
is probably 20 to 30 years ahead of the
in the pop culture aspect as breaking
because it's been on that stage since
maybe like the 90s or like maybe mid 80s
or something and at that point breaking
was barely even knew a thing at that
point so but anyways yeah I don't know
maybe I'm just rammed
but it it's something that that worries
me a little bit about it and I guess
also judging because um eivol eivol ways
had a thing about judging because it
this is like a art form and in a way
there's a lot of opinion that is
involved with a judge's decision of who
wins and I've always been curious how
that would play out on a larger stage or
like you know when an organization such
as the Olympics is backing an event if
they're coming in and going like ok well
how do you guys judge this and they go
oh you know we point to the guy we
thought we want and then they go oh well
why and then you go give me like some
quantitative curriculum or give me some
yet quantitative reason for why they won
it's really hard to do that I think I
mean you can we can say okay it's on a
point system we're giving you this
amount of points for this type of move
or this you know this particular
category but I think when it starts
breaking down like what you're judging
on it kind of falls apart to where
you're just going like I like what that
dude did over what that dude is so it it
bothers me a little bit cuz I think if
you know the Olympics starts like really
digging into what that is like what how
they would react to that I don't know if
maybe there's other sports Olympic
sports that are judged in a similar way
I mean if you're skating figure skating
I was thinking like because you're a
purely numbers opinion-based sometimes
yeah I know but with with figure skating
a lot of times as they say okay here's
our routine that we're doing and then we
have these big moves at this point this
point this point so they know what to
watch for and then ultimately they're
grading them on how they land that those
moves and so they have a point system on
that and then they'll give them another
score on like their creative creativity
and like all the dancing and stuff that
was involved with that I think that
comes into that score so there's like a
small part of it that's on that kind of
subjective scale and I guess that works
I guess it's also kind of with floor
routines for
for Olympia Olympia gymnasts it's kind
of the same thing but I was trying to
see how that relates to braking and it
was hard for me to figure that out
because it's not like you're going up to
these judges and saying hey I'm gonna
hit every flare flare windmill 90 and
they're like okay I'll watch for that
you do it dude and then you're gonna get
a creative score for like whatever other
thing you're gonna do but I mean a lot
of it is how you're responding to
somebody right and in a way I think it's
more like combat sports because you do
something to me and I'm gonna react to
it in a way right and then I do
something to you and you're gonna react
to it away so to me it seems like some
kind of merge between those two things
and I just don't I don't know judging
has always been kind of like on my mind
about how you know because I think
that's probably one of the other hinge
points in making taking breaking from
where it is now to the like you know NBA
level sport or something MMA level sport
I think the way we've always judged jams
and events now has always worked and we
haven't really questioned it too much
but I think when it moves into you know
bigger space where there's like actual
casual audience they're gonna go like
how do I know how do I judge this myself
you know what I mean in like with you
know like UFC fighting casual fans do
understand that you know because they
there's there's a lot of just criteria
that is spelled out on how to make that
you know how to how to I guess get your
win right and breaking I don't think
there is that like because I just
imagine if I showed a battle to my mom
who knows barely anything about breaking
I mean she knows something but I don't
think she could judge a battle but if I
said who wins and it was like close I
don't know if she could probably figure
that out you know because there's not
really a quantitative way to do that and
also I think there's an argument to be
made that it there doesn't need to be a
on a tative way because this is again an
art form and I do think that when a
judge says I like that's what this guy
did and his around more than that I
think that's actually a legitimate way
of judging because again it's like
judging a painting two paintings that
are completely different from each other
you might be like I like the
brushstrokes in that and that shit looks
like crap to me you know that's why I
like that one more and then someone else
could be like oh I like you know the
colors in this and not that one that's a
legitimate point of view too so I don't
know the the merger between those I
think is is something that's always been
in my mind of them like we're breaking
is gonna be in I don't know if there
ever will be a solution to that and I I
don't imagine you you have a solution to
it either partly judging so complex it's
very common I'm just happy I'm just
doing video yeah yeah yeah there's
everyone has a different judging format
and a judging system definitely yeah so
so yeah I just figured that maybe the
Olympics was gonna be more of like a
kind of strict on like what they're
doing well I mean they use the system
that originated from renegade and storm
and okay so I mean like I said look at
the Youth Olympics okay that judging
system will be familiar with that
they're still in play it there's a lot
it's a lot of numbers it's a slider
based system oh I'll have to look into
that YUM
you said that was from renegade and
storm renegade storm there's a couple
other people that involved with I would
say neke from rugged 's okay would be
helping out but if you look in the Youth
Olympics if you look at the WDS F
championship from last year in China
they all use it so it's still I mean I
would assume buy-in within four years or
so when 2024 they would have a more firm
yeah and there's a big handbook to it to
a big hand but everyone has to be
briefed I wouldn't hit a handbook I kind
of want to read it it is online actually
okay yeah yeah
okay cool um yeah I'll have to look into
that yeah cuz that that's that's
something that I've been like really
talking to so many people about and it's
it's kind of something that you know we
all are kind of like stuck on and I
imagine everybody's stuck on it but like
at least seeing you know where we're at
now maybe building on that cuz I know
dizzi has his system
yeowch I think is a good start my issue
with his system was always that like and
for people who don't know it's there's
like five categories and you have one
judge for each of those categories I
think that's like a pretty good start
it's my problem was always that you kind
of have this one you know monarch of
that particular thing that particular
category but ultimately I think every
all five of those judges probably have
something good to say about that
category so i i imagine maybe that's how
Stormin and renegade system maybe
factors more into like every judges may
be judging on each of those categories
right okay yeah cuz I think that that
would probably be a little bit fairer
way of doing it or at least like more of
a mud majora majority rule type of way
of doing it
this this I had this one idea a long
time ago and it was to just have like 20
judges and hear me out cuz I know it
sounds crazy how do you afford 20 judges
I don't know you can't afford it I don't
know I don't know yeah but cuz breaking
kind of started as like you know a
combat between two dancers in a circle
with a crowd and usually you were trying
to like burn the other guy in front of
this crowd to you know get a response
from the crowd so in a way the crowd is
already the judge from the very
beginning of what
breaking was so it kind of makes sense a
lot in now that we're in this more you
know well-defined Creek competitive
world
that maybe it makes sense to just have a
crowd of judges right twenty people
standing around the circle or whatever
and they are judging as if they were a
crowd member but instead of it just
being like your mom and you know your
grandma or whatever to around in the
circle it's like storm and you know
renegade or whoever all these other you
know well-versed dancers and people
who've been in the scene for a long time
knowledgeable people in that crowd so I
don't know that was just a weird idea
house throwing out and then kind of like
you're just saying okay well the
majority of these people said this guy
won okay maybe that's the way to do it
then you know at least it at least like
gets rid of the argument a little bit
where they go oh yeah this was only
three panel judge and those two judges
don't like me or something you know I
don't know but that's always bothered me
when people say that like I think you're
just complaining but well anyways I
think we've been going for about an hour
I want to probably close the show out so
in closing like do you have any other
hobbies outside of hip hop in you know
how does that like kind of go into your
life and you know I mean like like like
I said already I love eSports you love
these sports yeah I a lot of my hobbies
I draw is I you can I draw you know
insight into what I do so I take a
little bit of what I see in eSports and
throw into stance coverages I travel a
lot travel a lot I make a lot of travel
videos you know apart from working you
know with dances stuff like that I do
freelance travel videos mm-hmm
I work with hotels I work with travel
companies tourism bureaus yeah and we
create you know commercials like that
yeah and so a lot of times for example I
just got back from Mexico okay and I was
there to cover an event for a week and
then I stayed in next
week just to travel around and film
travel videos okay that's that's awesome
so you know things like that I I draw
interest in yeah yeah I heard you're
also filming um
aces wedding yes I do
I do the occasional wedding when I first
moved to LA I I filmed a lot of weddings
and so yes I I do weddings and I
actually learned how to do weddings from
a b-boy from the bay by the name Natron
oh yeah nature own yeah nature does a
lot of wood he had a business with a
couple other guys from his cousin giardi
is that were his brother Jordie I don't
think it's his cousin but when I started
filming weddings for the first time out
I went to I I messaged me Tron's like
hey show me one of your wedding videos
and I'm gonna copy this exactly because
I have no idea what wedding videos are
really this is weddings videos are good
and and you know what in terms filming
weddings have helped me film breaking
events too
yeah because it made me understand like
when to anticipate moments oh yeah
certain important moments whether
they're doing something or they're
talking something oh yeah or something
is about to happen that you can you can
anticipate it yeah it's like you got you
gotta read the whole room and know like
what's about to happen
correct you gotta be in the spot where
you're like I guess you're invisible in
the sense that you're not ruining the
moment but you're also in the best spot
to capture it yes yeah imagine there's a
there's an art form to Perth exactly
said it just right yeah so it has helped
me so just filming so many types of
variety of things help me in filming you
know stance
yeah well tight dude yeah well great I
think that was that was dope I I think
that was a learned a lot from from you
and like what you're all about
thank you that's been great do you have
any last minute shoutouts while I close
this show out Thank You Kurt for having
me on
yes yeah thank you for coming dude I
really appreciate it
yeah trying to get this podcast out very
soon so I'll let you know when I do that
yes and then you know it'd be great to
have you on again I'm trying to maybe
figure out a way to get like multiple
people in a podcast yeah we have so many
of I mean more than more than happy to
cover on a variety of topics yeah you
know um I know I know later in April I'm
going to an event in Toronto and I'm
giving I'm giving a little mini workshop
there on social media ya know like how
to get views how to what are what's
what's exactly the algorithm way or how
you you know quote unquote things like
that you know like the motored chef he's
a good friend of mine he's like Dan I
want you to give you a talk and have
people have an insight on how to create
a brain and how to do this let's do it I
need to go to that cuz I don't know crap
about social media like I actually just
frickin don't use social media yeah like
now that I'm starting this podcast I'm
like oh I guess I gotta learn how to do
that my brother's pretty good at it
Joe I can learn some stuff from him but
I could definitely use the help on that
coz I'll be hitting you up well thank
you uh for for joining me today and
thank you guys for listening sorry this
just sucks
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