Mark Fischler (Part 2) - Democracy in Decline? Making Sense of the Supreme Court, the Trump Trials, and Threats to Public Morality

Deep Transformation

Ep. 136 (Part 2 of 2) | Criminal justice professor and constitutional law expert Mark Fischler does a brilliant job of deepening our understanding of the challenges facing our democracy, our legal system, and our public morality. How did the democratic process and the values it represents—equality and liberty for all—come to be teetering on the brink? Mark illuminates the fact that the Constitution is not a set-in-stone document, but eminently open to interpretation, and explains that its interpretation is a direct reflection of the worldviews of the Supreme Court justices. In fact, the whole process of democracy needs to be aligned with a certain level of development in order to deliver. Mark points out that democracy hasn’t served all of us, and urges us to explore who and in what ways it has failed, that we may work to correct its flaws and continue to uphold and expand the values foundational to democracy to include respecting and protecting the rights of all beings.

Mark contrasts the moral integrity of revered public figures such as Socrates and Dr. King, who honored the rule of law despite that it went against their own self interest, with the disregard for the law so prevalent among political figures today, and points out that democracy can be subverted not only by malicious intent, but also by misplaced idealism—when people feel that supporting a charismatic leader or ideology is more important than supporting the principles of democracy. With regard to the Trump trials, the question arises, is any human above the law? Mark also shares where he finds hope—in his own university students with their openness to a deeper ethical understanding and responsibility and willingness to undertake civic action. Mark urges all of us who care about democracy to become engaged now. His wise, integral, highly informed insights about the current state of the legal system and of democracy, here and around the world, are revelatory, alarming, and inspiring in turn. Recorded May 22, 2024.

“It’s time for us to take absolute responsibility for our democracy: if you have a democracy, you need to be engaged and involved.“

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

• Democracy only functions properly when there is a foundational rule of law, and the moral integrity of Socrates (01:08)
• Trumpian politics/political chicanery vs conservative or progressive politics (05:25)
• Roe vs. Wade and how we have lost the ability to have a sincere conversation about postnatal care (08:19)
• We are suffering as a people from our inability to enter into a dialectic (09:23)
• We are not the only democracy at risk: the rise of authoritarianism, populism & demagoguery around the world (12:28)
• Is there any precedent for a president to be immune from prosecution? (13:27)
• What is an “official act”? January 6th and interpreting if an act is official or criminal (16:41)
• Back to democracy at risk: what are democratic values about? (22:19)
• How is democracy subverted? (23:54)
• Misplaced idealism can undermine democracy and subvert the rule of law (27:23)
• Educated citizenry and moving through levels of development to where we recognize the equal dignity of everyone (29:55)
• With the internet, there are no consistent, shared news sources, no awareness of civic responsibility (32:52)
• We need to own that democracy has not worked for everybody (37:09)
• So much depends on our intention: is it about me and mine or the wellbeing of all? (41:13)
• What gives Mark hope? Mark’s students and their openness to a deeper ethical understanding and responsibility (43:27)
• It’s time for us to take absolute responsibility for our democracy: if you have a democracy, you need to be engaged and involved (44:25)

Resources & References

• The Integral Justice Warrior series, co-hosted by Mark Fischler and Corey deVos (on the Integral Life website)
• Linda Greenhouse, Pulitzer Prize winner who reported on the Supreme Court for The New York Times from 1978 to 2008, author of The U.S. Supreme Court: A Very Short Introduction*, Justice on the Brink: A Requiem for the Supreme Court*, The Burger Court and the Rise of the Judicial Right*, and more.
• The Federalist Society and Originalism
• The Warren Court, 1953-1969
• Justice Scalia’s Contradictory Originalism (New Yorker article)
• Plato, Crito’s dialogue with Socrates
• Sinclair Lewis, It Can’t Happen Here*

* As an Amazon Associate, Deep Transformation earns from qualifying purchases.

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Mark Fischler is a Professor of Criminal Justice and current program coordinator for the criminal justice and criminology programs at Plymouth State University. Prior to joining the Plymouth State faculty, he practiced law, representing poor criminal defendants for the New Hampshire Public Defender’s Office. Mark left the law after being guided by the Universe to focus on his Spiritual Awareness for almost two years. Upon his return, he was called to become a teacher and accepted a job at Plymouth State in 2003.

Since then, Mark has worked extensively with alternative theoretical models in law, constitutional law, and higher education, and has published on integral applications to teaching, being a lawyer, and legal theory. In his time at the university, he’s been a chair, Dean, and Interim VP. His focus in the classroom is ethics and criminal procedure and constitutional law. He is well respected for a teaching philosophy that emphasizes recognizing the humanity and dignity of each student. Professor Fischler was awarded the outstanding teaching award at his university in 2014. He currently offers a weekly Spiritual Inquiry class for college students.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell