95 Oscar Hetherington - Award Winning Surf Photographer

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

Think great surf photos are just about timing the barrel? Think again—what if the real magic happens before the wave even breaks?

Oscar Hetherington shares how photography sharpened his wave reading, elevated his surfing, and deepened his obsession with adventure. From the snowy points of the South Island to international recognition with the Follow the Light award, Oscar explains how slowing down, observing the ocean, and embracing the full surf journey—not just the ride—can transform your surf experience.

• Learn why most surfers blow good sessions before they even paddle out—and how to fix it

• Discover how photography can teach you better wave selection, rhythm, and positioning

• Hear the behind-the-scenes of cold water shoots, hypothermia, and winning global surf awards

Hit play now to see surfing through a fresh lens and uncover the mindset shift that could elevate every session you paddle into.

Website: https://www.oscarhetheringtonvisuals.com

Insta: https://www.instagram.com/oscar.hetherington/?hl=en

Music: Original by Joe Cole. Check out Joe: https://www.instagram.com/joecolemusic/, https://open.spotify.com/artist/5TjI5d408YMuLi17W0OP9B

Key Points

• Oscar Hetherington began surfing at the age of seven or eight in Queensland, Australia, and continued the sport despite moving to Wanaka, far from the coast.

• Oscar Hetherington has been passionate about photography since he was young, starting with a GoPro and later moving to Sony equipment, influenced by his love for adventure and sports.

• Oscar Hetherington's photography gained recognition through his work shooting mountain bike events, leading to his entry into surf photography and eventually winning the Follow the Light Surf Photography Awards.

• Winning the Follow the Light Surf Photography Awards has opened up opportunities for Oscar Hetherington, including a planned trip with Billabong.

• Oscar Hetherington emphasizes the adventure aspect of surfing in his photography, seeking out undiscovered spots and focusing on the journey rather than just the waves.

• Oscar Hetherington finds that shooting surf photography enhances his surfing skills by improving his wave reading and selection, contributing to a more comprehensive understanding of the sport.

• Oscar Hetherington identifies rushing and poor wave selection as common mistakes among beginner and intermediate surfers, advocating for a more deliberate and observational approach to surfing.

• Oscar Hetherington recounts a challenging experience of mild hypothermia while shooting surf photography in cold conditions, emphasizing the importance of proper equipment and preparation.

• Oscar Hetherington expresses a strong interest in exploration and adventure, both in his photography and surfing, aiming to visit and document lesser-known surf spots around the world.

• Oscar Hetherington aspires to work with National Geographic and create a photo book documenting his adventures and surf experiences in unique, less-visited locations.

Outline

Oscar Hetherington's Background

• Oscar Hetherington is a surfer and photographer from New Zealand.

• Oscar started surfing at the age of seven or eight in Queensland, Australia, near Noosa.

• Oscar's family, including their father and brother, also engaged in outdoor activities like kite surfing and rugby.

• Oscar has always been creative, with interests in drawing, painting, and photography from a young age.

• Oscar's first camera was a GoPro, followed by a Nikon D3000, and currently uses Sony a7R III and a7R IV cameras.

Oscar's Photography Career

• Oscar began gaining recognition for their photography skills by shooting videos of mountain biking events.

• Oscar entered the Follow the Light Surf Photography Awards and won the grand prize in 2023.

• Oscar's photography portfolio includes surf action, lifestyle, portrait, and seascape images.

• Oscar is set to embark on a trip with Billabong, a leading surf brand, to create content and collaborate with their athletes and creatives.

Surfing and Photography

• Oscar enjoys capturing the adventure and culture of surfing, not just the action shots.

• Oscar spends time researching and planning surf trips using tools like Google Meet to find new waves and swell patterns.

• Oscar often shoots when the surf conditions are great, reserving surfing for when the conditions are merely good.

• Oscar believes that shooting surfing has improved their own surfing skills by enhancing their wave reading and timing.

• Oscar emphasizes the importance of slowing down and being selective with wave choices in both surfing and photography.

Learning and Improvement in Surfing

• Oscar highlights the value of watching the ocean and other surfers to learn and improve surfing skills.

• Oscar suggests that beginners and intermediate surfers often rush and make poor wave selections.

• Oscar practices self-reflection after each wave to identify areas for improvement in their surfing.

• Oscar varies their surfing equipment, such as trying different boards, to keep the activity interesting and improve their skills.

• Oscar emphasizes the importance of choosing the right surfboard for the conditions to enhance performance and enjoyment.

Adventure and Exploration

• Oscar values the adventure and exploration aspect of surfing, seeking out new and undiscovered waves.

• Oscar has had experiences of finding perfect waves by driving to less crowded spots and using tools like Google Meet to plan trips.

• Oscar is inspired by the idea of traveling to remote and unique locations for surfing and photography adventures.

• Oscar mentions the influence of photographers like Nick Green, who capture waves in uncharted territories.

• Oscar expresses interest in creating a book or project documenting an adventurous surf trip to a unique destination.

Future Goals

• Oscar feels a sense of increased pressure to continue producing amazing imagery after winning the Follow the Light award.

• Oscar aspires to be recognized or collaborate with National Geographic, aiming to capture timeless and iconic images.

• Oscar's main focus in photography is on surfing and seascapes, but they are open to shooting anything that inspires them.

• Oscar has a goal of creating a significant adventure project, potentially a book, documenting a unique surf trip to a remote location.

Transcription

Michael Frampton
Back to the Surf Mastery Podcast. Today's guest is Oscar Hetherington. Oscar is a surfer and photographer from here in New Zealand, and Oscar came into my awareness last year when I saw his amazing images after he won the grand prize at the 2023 Follow the Light Surf Photography Awards, and it turns out he lives just around the corner, so we got to do this one in person. The intro and outro music was written by Joe Cole, a New Zealand musician. I gave him an early listen to this episode, and he came up with this original piece, which I love. So big thanks to Joe for doing that. You can listen to his recorded originals online on Spotify: Joe Cole, J-O-E-C-O-L-E, and Joe Cole Music on Instagram. Today's guest, Oscar Hetherington, is at [email protected] on Instagram and oscarhetheringtonvisuals.com. Of course, all of that stuff is in the show notes and at surfmastery.com for the links. Bye now. Please enjoy my conversation with Oscar. When did you start surfing?

Oscar Hetherington
I started surfing probably I think I was seven or eight years old. Yeah, we lived in Australia for a couple of years, luckily enough. Up in Queensland near Noosa, so yeah, picked up a surfboard then. And then, yeah, 23 now and... I guess I grew up in Wanaka mainly, first of all, which is pretty far away from the coast, as you can imagine. Yeah, I guess that's when I was first introduced to surfing. But since then, every holiday we've been on, every time I've been to the beach, I've just wanted to keep surfing. No, shortboarding.

Michael Frampton
Basically. No, so was that longboarding?

Oscar Hetherington
Like I say, seven or eight years old, Dad was pushing me in on a little soft top kind of thing.

Michael Frampton
So Dad's a surfer?

Oscar Hetherington
Nah, Dad wasn't a surfer, but living in a place like Noosa, you know, he bought a board, just couldn't help himself. He started learning, I started learning, my little brother started learning. Yeah, we were all just out there as much as we could, and there's no excuse not to be in the... You know, they've got warm water and good waves to learn in over there. So that's where it all began for me, really.

Michael Frampton
Did it begin for your family as well from living in Noosa? Did your dad keep surfing? Did your brothers keep surfing?

Oscar Hetherington
My brother still surfs just for fun. Yeah, he's more focused on rugby and other things. Dad is quite into kite surfing. Yeah, he's always been keen on anything in the outdoors—skiing, sailing. Yeah, gave surfing a go, anything outdoors he loves. So yeah, he still kite surfs, but he doesn't surf anymore. So out of the family, it's mainly me, I guess, who's addicted to it. Yeah.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. And then what about art?

Oscar Hetherington
I've always been pretty creative, like from a young age, I don't know. Just curious and liked drawing, painting. I remember picking up a camera when I was probably 11 or 12 years old and just curious about how they made movies, how photos were taken, you know, all sorts of stuff like that. I probably didn't appreciate art when I was young, but I was just curious on like how it was made, how people made movies—from like the special effects to how they filmed the action stuff. Yeah. All of that.

Michael Frampton
Did you have a favourite director or a favourite movie or a favourite photographer, artist back then?

Oscar Hetherington
Not really, no. I think I was too young. Like I say, I was just curious on all of it and how it worked. Like, yeah, you'd watch a movie and there'd be some shots where I'd just think, like, how did they do that? Like, was it a drone or a helicopter or a gimbal or like, a lot of it was movie stuff. But yeah, I guess I was too young to kind of think too deeply into how. Well, to understand how it was actually done and have favorites and things. Yeah, I'd say that's probably the best way to put it.

Michael Frampton
That, yeah. So you were in awe of cinematography?

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. And just like, yeah, watching any type of sport really—from rugby to surfing to diving—you know, all of that stuff, you'd watch it and just go far out, that looks amazing. Like, I want to go and do that activity first of all, but then how do you show other people kind of the things you get up to and the adventures and the stories behind the sport, I guess. Yeah. Initially, like, I started shooting... It was nothing to do with photography really. It was, like I say, in Wanaka once again, going on adventures, going skiing and fishing and mountain biking, all of that. It was going to amazing places, seeing amazing things, doing sports in the mountains and wanting to show friends at school, wanting to show Mum and Dad, hey, this is amazing snow we scored or check out this fish we caught or whatever. And then, yeah, taking photos kind of and videos of stuff like that. And then... Yeah, after a while it kind of... I don't know, everywhere I went, I was just carrying a camera going like, just looking at the world a bit differently, I guess, as well.

Michael Frampton
What was your first camera?

Oscar Hetherington
I had a GoPro to start with when I was 11 or 12 years old, and then I had a Nikon D3000, I think it was, from memory.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, just the entry-level SLR.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, nothing special. It was second-hand off Trade Me for my 14th or 15th birthday kind of thing. Yeah, and then, yeah, had that for a few years and then just sort of slowly upgraded to where I'm at now, yeah.

Michael Frampton
What are you using now?

Oscar Hetherington
Now I'm using all Sony. So I shoot with a Sony a7R III and a Sony a7R IV mainly. And yeah, just Sony lenses as well. And then in the water, I shoot with the Aquatech housing.

Michael Frampton
Nice. Yeah. When was your first recognition of that, how you were actually doing pretty well at photography or filming?

Oscar Hetherington
A few times we went away on fishing trips or mountain biking, like you'd go away for Easter weekend or whatever, and then I remember cutting up like a little, I don't know, two-minute mountain bike video, posting it on YouTube, and then you go to school next week and a few people are like, that was a crazy video, like, I saw what you got up to on the weekend. And then I guess that kind of gave me a little bit of confidence. I probably, yeah, made a few edits over a year or so. And then I actually contacted a family friend of ours who runs a mountain bike race and just said, hey, can I come and shoot this whole event for free, just to like see if I can, you know, shoot a day's worth of content and make like a recap video for the event? And that went well. I remember staying up till like two in the morning editing the day of the event, put it up online like nine o'clock the morning after. And everyone from the event was just waking up, checking Facebook and being like, my God, there's like a video out already. Like I just put my heart and soul into it. And then a lot of people just from that were like, this is like super cool. And I guess, yeah, no one had shot that event before. Yeah, I guess cameras weren't... That would have been, I think, 2015?

Michael Frampton
Like... What year was that?

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, so cameras were around for sure, but people had shot stills of that event, but they'd never shot a video of it. I think it was just something different and people were just stoked. And yeah, I had people from, friends from school, family, friends, all sorts of people. I think even one of the local newspapers rang me up and was like, hey, that was such a cool video, and they put it on their website or a few things like that. So that was, yeah, positive encouragement. And then from then on, I guess it slowly built. The next mountain bike race I was kind of like, hey, do you guys need someone to film a little video for you? I've done this one before. And then, yeah, it's just built from there, I guess. So that was for the Follow the Light.

Michael Frampton
Cool. Because, I mean, this year you got recognized in the surf world for your work. So what did that feel like?

Oscar Hetherington
Foundation Awards. That was crazy. That was... yeah, it was a strange thing, I guess. Growing up in Wanaka, I was never that close to the ocean, so I could never shoot surfing that often. When I went to university, I decided, right, I'm going to go to Dunedin. There are good waves down there, I can study and just shoot as much as I can. So I went down there, and I think my first year down there I got a few cool shots, whatever, found out those Follow the Light Foundation Awards were on, entered a few and got a bit of feedback. Most of it was positive. And I kind of thought, like, this is quite cool. And, like, the list of the people that had won that award in the past, like Nick Green, Ray Collins, Chris Burkard... there's just a never-ending list of people that have won it. So then I guess every year my kind of goal was to just take a few better photos solely for that portfolio. Yeah, so they always ask for 15 images, and I had 15 good ones four years ago. Then a year later when it was time to enter again, I'd go, right, which ones can I swap out? And for a couple of years there, I'd swap out most of them. Then two years ago, I made it into the top 10, and I thought, right, I'm doing something right, heading in the right direction here and whatnot. And then last year I made it into the top 5, and I was like, right, I'm doing everything right. Just made a few tweaks and kind of really broke down the images that I was entering. Yeah, so broke it down to some surf action stuff, some lifestyle and portrait stuff—like behind the scenes of surfing, really—and then just some seascapes. So just really broke it down to those three areas, picked my five favorite photos, and then, yeah, ended up winning it somehow. Headed over to America, and yeah, it was a crazy trip to go over there and just be recognized for like... yeah, I don't know. It had been, like I say, a goal of mine for so long. Yeah, there's been quite a few.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, no, that's awesome. Has anything, any opportunities stemmed out of that?

Oscar Hetherington
Honestly, like... over there on the award night, for example, like I'd never seen that many surfers in one place before. Like, in New Zealand, it's... I don't know, a busy day at the beach here, there's 20 people in the water, 30 people in the water. At that night, there were one or two thousand people and everyone surfed, everyone was there for the same reason. So like, just... yeah, the scale over there was awesome. So from that, I'm heading away to do a trip with Billabong this year, which will be pretty cool. I don't know exactly where or when I'm headed with them, but I'm looking forward to that—doing some work with them. They obviously have been one of the leading surf brands for as long as anyone can remember. So that'll be awesome to get a foot in the door with them, meet some of their athletes and their creatives. And yeah, I'm really excited to see what we can come up with.

Michael Frampton
Cool. Will you be the only photographer on that trip?

Oscar Hetherington
I'm not sure.

Michael Frampton
They haven't told you yet?

Oscar Hetherington
No, they haven't told me. I've been in talks with them. They're just planning out a few trips at the moment and then waiting for them to get back to me and figure out where we're off to.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, that'll be exciting.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And I think the one thing within surf photography or in surfing as a whole that I like to show when I shoot is like the whole adventure of surfing. It's not just someone standing up on a wave doing a cool turn or anything. There's so much more to it—that whole kind of adventure thing, searching for waves, reading maps, weather patterns, all of that. That's what I love about it too. Like I say, there's so much more to surfing than getting a good wave because there's so much before that can happen that has to line up.

Michael Frampton
All of those zoomed-in shots of the perfect turn—that's been done. I mean, no one knows who took that photo. But you see a shot that Chris Burkard has done, you feel the adventure of surfing. Or Rambo's, like all those adventure surfing shots. And then you probably listened to the episode I did with Rambo. There's a lot that goes...

Oscar Hetherington
A lot that goes on behind the scenes. Like I've spent hours on Google Meet. That's, yeah, something that my mates give me a bit of shit for because, I don't know, it's like a weird... a strange obsession. But it's like, just always looking for, right, what's out there? Finding new waves, looking at where storms are hitting. There's... people have been to a lot of these breaks before and stuff, but I haven't, so it's... yeah, that's really interesting. Trying to line everything up and then going to shoot that as well.

Michael Frampton
So you're actively seeking... indie... spots that no one goes to, essentially. Google Meet. Yeah, I mean, the New Zealand coastline's perfect for...

Oscar Hetherington
That. Yeah, the New Zealand coastline's perfect for that. And I think Rambo in particular has probably influenced that a lot. Like just some of his empty lineup shots, you know, they're just amazing. Everyone who surfs in New Zealand and around the world knows him and his stuff. So yeah, he's been probably one of my biggest influences over the years. Yeah, like you say, just checking out the coastline on Google Meet and then figuring out what swells are going to work for that spot. You don't get it right first go. Like, you might have to go back to the same spot four or five times until you get it on a good day. Or you might go back... or you might, yeah, you could get it really good the first time and then go back and it's just... yeah, sometimes those spots are like kind of one-hit wonders in a way.

Michael Frampton
If you pull up to a spot and the waves are pumping... what's the feeling of like, do I shoot or do I surf? Or do you purposely not take a surfboard?

Oscar Hetherington
That's an interesting one. I'd like to say I surf when it's good, but I shoot when it's great. So there's kind of a difference for me. Like if it's... yeah, if it's anywhere... yeah, efforts out of 10, if it's like a 9 or 10 out of 10, then I'll shoot. Because there's only a handful of days a year where the surf is double overhead offshore and there's one or two talented guys out, or no one out, or a few mates out, or whatever it may be. But there's a lot of days when it's good, when it's not, you know, head-high, the wind's a little bit funny or whatever. But I find I can go and have a lot of fun and good vibes, but it's hard to get amazing photos when the waves are just good. Like you kind of need right waves, like I say, because I've spent hours sitting on the beach shooting mates who are really talented surfers and yeah, sat there for hours shooting, and it's like, it's all right, but it's not really doing its thing. And then you go home and you've got a thousand photos to go through. You've been sitting in the cold on the beach alone for four hours and you get nothing and you're like, damn, maybe I should have just gone and surfed because you would have had a whole lot more fun. And shooting, I guess, like it's experience. You're watching the ocean, it's all of that. You're playing around with your camera, trying different things to make moments look amazing in those average conditions, but it's still quite hard.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah.

Oscar Hetherington
To nail a shot on an average day.

Michael Frampton
It's probably easier, like, if you're sitting there and it's 9 to 10 out of 10, the swell is peaking, and you're waiting for that one set to come through, and you get the beautiful shot. There's probably no one on that set anyway because they're out of position, or that's the set that you can capture from the beach. But man, you've got to know the spot inside and out to actually catch one of those...

Oscar Hetherington
Waves. Yeah, 100%. And I think, like, on that note, a few times I've been lucky enough where you pull up, shoot a spot per se for an hour or two, and it's like great waves. Like I say, it's just perfect, picture-perfect. And I'll shoot it, and I'll go, right, I've got some good shots in there, like quickly look through my camera and go, yeah, right. I know there's some money shots in there. I'm going to go and surf because I feel like I've captured enough to kind of satisfy the photography side of it. And then going out and catching a few waves after that, that's like kind of the best of both...

Michael Frampton
Worlds. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. There's a period—I did my, when I was probably 22, I did my ACL. So I was out surfing for a good, back then it was 12 months rehab, and I just kept going to the beach and kept taking photos and watching surfing and watching waves. And then when I got back into surfing, I was better. Yeah. And I think it was just because surfing is so much about just getting to know the ocean and the rhythms and watching waves and reading waves that I think you get to do that in quite an intimate way with the camera. For sure. Because you're watching from pulled back, and then you can zoom in on your lens. Yeah. And you watch, you know, that surfer should have been here. Yeah. Did you not see that set where I saw it coming? I was ready with the camera. He wasn't ready with his paddling or... yeah. So there's a lot of...

Oscar Hetherington
That. Yeah, I completely understand. Like, I've spent hours and hours looking at the ocean through a lens. And I think that's, yeah, overall it's definitely improved my surfing. And I know other photographers and filmers are the exact same. Like you say, it begins to become kind of like second nature to you. You can pull up to the beach and you know where the rips are and all of that because you've seen it hundreds of times before. Or you'll see someone and you, without even lifting a camera, you can see, nah, that person's too deep, they're not going to make that wave. Or nah, they did a turn in the wrong spot or whatever. So yeah, it kind of goes hand in hand—surfing and photography—because then you can go out and be like, right, you know what waves are going to be the good ones, whether it's the slightly smaller ones in the sets or the last one of the set, first wave of the set. Like, yeah, I definitely think shooting the sport that I partake in has, you know, for me as a surfer. But I think it's benefited me as a photographer because I know the moments that surfers look for. And I'd like to think that I know how to shoot the sport because I do it, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, especially shots in the water and stuff—that's angles that only surfers normally get to see. If you're paddling out into the lineup and someone gets barrelled right in front of you, that's... not many people get to see that angle. But as a surfer, we all have seen that before and you go, that's like the best moment. So when you're shooting, I'm like, right, I know this is where I need to be. And if someone can surf that wave in that way and I'm in the right spot, then that might all line up. Or if it's an empty wave, that makes me just as happy because it takes one less variable out of the equation.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah. How often is it a case when, as you're pulling up and parking your car, that's the best set?

Oscar Hetherington
Always. Yeah, every time? Yeah. I think... I've definitely become better over the past year or two just slowing things down, whether I'm shooting or surfing. I know often, even with mates around here, I'll pull up to the beach and they'll chuck their suits on and just go jump straight in the water. I'll find myself 10 minutes behind them. And it doesn't bother me because I know... you just get a chance to feel a few sets come through, look up and down the beach at other banks and things like that, rather than—like you say—it's always the case. You pull up and you see the wave of the day come in and you're like, right, I'm going surfing there. And that might not actually be the best spot. That might just be the odd fluky one that comes through and is amazing. But down the beach a few hundred meters, it could be just really big time. I agree for sure. And I think that whole time thing is like slowing everything down.

Michael Frampton
Consistent. Yeah, no, I mean, I think a lot of surfers don't watch the waves enough. Yeah.

Oscar Hetherington
When you're surfing, it's super important, I reckon. Like, watching from shooting so much surfing, you'll often see people paddle into a wave and just rush a lot, you know. They'll jump straight to their feet in a split second, and then they might try to jam three or four turns into a wave, where often you watch good guys like pros and stuff—they'll stay down for a second longer, time their pop-up perfectly, and do like two amazing turns rather than three or four average turns, you know. I feel like just slowing things down is something I've had to learn because it's kind of like controlling that excitement and like, I need to do this, or should I go on this one, or whatever. But just, yeah, and being selective on waves as well. That's a huge thing that a lot of people think—if they get the most waves, they're having the best session. But it's kind of like a quality vs. quantity thing.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, that's certainly a detail you have to... well, you can really focus on that with your photography because you get to go back and look at all the photos you took and kind of compare—why did I push the shutter then? It was a waste of... because it's not film, you don't waste any money, but you waste time going through and looking and editing. And so you kind of narrow down your wave selection in that way, I guess. And of course, that translates to your surfing.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, for sure. And it's definitely just time watching the ocean. I was out shooting this morning, and there were some big sets coming in, and I wasn't even lifting my camera to shoot them because I sat there for half an hour and watched a few big sets come in, and they just weren't hitting the bank properly or they were closing down, closing out. But then watching, and some of those mid-sized ones that were coming through actually shaped up a whole lot better, held positions right from out the back the whole way through to the inside, and were makeable. And then a few surfers came in and were like, "It's pretty average out there, didn't get any good waves," and I was like, a lot of the time they're probably looking for the biggest wave of the day or taking those set waves, where it's like, if they'd stood on the beach for 15 minutes before they'd gone out, it's kind of like maybe some of those mid-sized ones would have been a lot more enjoyable to surf.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Once everyone's finished surfing, they want to go somewhere else. When I was sort of your age and growing up, we just hung out at the beach. And if we weren't surfing, we usually didn't get out quick. We wouldn't sit in and watch, but we'd come in and have fun to eat and watch the surf and go back out again and just hang out at the beach. There was nothing else to do. There were no smartphones. There was just watch the beach. And I think you learn a lot from that—just watching.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, for sure. And it's watching the ocean in that sense, but it's then watching edits and videos of pros doing their thing, watching the comp surfers. Like, yeah, all of that stuff. It's all learning—whether you're breaking it down like I am with a camera, like frame by frame: right, what should this person have done here, or what would I have done there, or whatever. Whatever you're doing, I think as long as you're learning as a surfer—no matter what you're learning—as long as you're learning something to do with surfing, then you're going to be heading in the right direction. I think it's the moment that you stop learning that's probably when surfing, I don't know, may become boring or you're just not as interested in it anymore. Yeah, but I always... yeah. Everything from conditions to equipment to different surf spots, swell patterns, all of that, yeah, learning's big, I reckon.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, I'm wondering—I always ask this question for everyone—but you have a unique perspective on it because you watch surfing a lot, and probably a lot of average surfing. But what's the biggest mistake you think that beginners and intermediate surfers make?

Oscar Hetherington
I think... probably rushing again, like I say. I think a lot of people—yeah, a combination of wave selection and people just rushing. Especially in that kind of intermediate phase of just trying to go on any wave that comes to them. Yeah, where stopping and watching can just... yeah, I think it can improve your surfing a lot. Because it's one thing to be a good surfer, but to be able to read a wave and read the ocean and all of that, and to be able to perform at a wave that's ever-changing in front of you is—yeah, that's something quite different, I guess, to being able to do a crazy turn. I kind of dodged that question a bit.

Michael Frampton
No, I totally agree. Everyone's rushing. I find that in between waves... and not—like they check out.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. There's one thing that I've personally done with my own surfing recently is, after every wave, when I'm paddling back out—just once I get back out the back—even if there's a set coming or whatever, just stopping and thinking, right, what did I do well on that wave? What could I have done differently? Should that bottom turn have been a little bit deeper? When I hit that end section, should I have hit it a little bit earlier? Was I a little bit late to it? Transferred your weight in different ways? Just thinking about those things rather than just going, well, that was a bad wave, and then paddling back out and hoping that the next one's better. It's like that kind of learning and want to improve.

Michael Frampton
Photographing or even in the water—as soon as you're like, "I'm just going to go to the car and grab a snack"—then the wave... that's when the wave comes. That's when that's that set that wasn't a big set, and it popped out of nowhere. And yeah, that one hit the reef just perfectly. And it's the same thing when you're sitting out the back and you think, I just caught a set, I'm going to paddle back out and I'm going to talk to my friend. Yeah, and then that's when the set pops out of nowhere. So I think a lot of surfers don't understand that surfing is... if you're surfing for an hour, you've got to be focused on the ocean for an hour. Not just—not for one minute every five minutes.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, for sure. And I think it's a funny one. I go out with some mates around here and a few of them are just... like surfing's their social life, you know? You've been working a week or whatever, and you go out on a Saturday morning for a wave, and they're just talking the whole time. And I feel bad, but sometimes I'm like, mid-conversation, I'm going on this wave. And they might not have seen it, or they're just out of position or whatever, but like, yeah, you've got to be focused on what's in front of you, otherwise you're going to miss the wave of the day. You're going to get caught inside by a big set. You know, you've got to be able to read what's happening in the ocean and react accordingly, essentially.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, sometimes you see a lot of good surfers have the ability to riff with you, but they might not look at you much. They're always just watching the horizon, and then halfway through a conversation, they just paddle away from you. And yeah, it kind of feels rude, but it's not really. They're there to surf. You might find, especially if you're new to surfing, you try and spark up a conversation and they won't even look at you.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, 100%. Some surfers...

Michael Frampton
They'll just blank you and maybe even paddle away from you. It's not because they're rude. In fact, if you went up to them when they're getting changed and asked to borrow some wax, they might be the nicest person you've ever met.

Oscar Hetherington
For sure, yeah.

Michael Frampton
But when they're surfing, it's like... don't. It's like that's their time to focus on the ocean.

Oscar Hetherington
Exactly. And it's a classic thing, but I always like to try and—if you're chasing waves with mates or whatever—it's like, you've got so much other time to catch up with people. You're going out with your friends and you've got to drive half an hour to the beach—do all the talking then when you're driving to the beach. That's when you're cracking jokes and having a laugh and having fun. Surfing, you can still do that for sure. But when it's good, like, you don't want to miss the wave of the day because you're turned around checking out your mate's new board or whatever it is. Check it out in the car park. Or, like, you know, just... yeah, you've definitely got to focus on it. And as a photographer, that's a huge thing too, for a few reasons. I think it's when you're shooting in the water, that is. I think it's... I don't know, I've found myself once or twice thinking, I just nailed that shot. Should I check it on the back of your camera? And then you check it, and then the crazy set comes in and you're out of position all of a sudden. Yeah, you've got to be super aware when you're shooting in the water. It's quite hard to move as fast as well because you're in the water—you're not on a surfboard as such. You've just got flippers on, so it's a little bit harder to get around out there. So yeah, and that's another reason why I pay so much attention to the ocean. If there's tons of sweep down a point, for example, or whatever, and you want to shoot in the water, you've got to know what's going on. Because at the end of the day, the ocean's in charge. You can jump out there and think you're lined up for the perfect shot, and then all of a sudden you get caught in a rip and you're dragged a few hundred metres down the beach. You've got to walk all the way back up, you've burnt all your energy, you've got no photos—none of that. And that's hard work. Like, I've learnt myself the hard way many times. But...

Michael Frampton
What's your worst experience?

Oscar Hetherington
Like I say, that's happened to me once or twice—probably a few years ago when I was younger and you'd just pull up to the car park and go, "Holy moly, the surf's incredible." All your mates are there, or a bunch of really good locals are out there, and you just jump in and don't take the time to look. Yeah, I've had one or two times down south, jumping in, just not reading the rips or the sweep or whatever it is, and then all of a sudden you're, yeah, a kilometre down the beach going, "Far out, where are my mates? Where are we parked?" And at the end of the day, you just end up out of energy with nothing to show for it, and you could have avoided that situation completely if you'd stopped for five minutes and looked and figured things out a little bit. One memory that springs to mind was just after one of the COVID lockdowns. A few of my mates were all down in Dunedin studying, and uni was online and all of that. And we went out every day for probably a month to this spot down there that had really good sand. We were normally only three or four people in the water. And I think it must have been my first or second year shooting surfing, because I only had a 3:2, and it was the middle of winter. I went down there—we were shooting in the water for three or four hours, and I was just really cold. Like, got to the point where I couldn't press the buttons on my camera, and my fingers just felt like rocks—just, yeah, there was no movement in them. My feet were the same, and it was probably about a half-hour walk back to the car up this quite big hill. And I thought, yeah, it's all good, walking back up the hill in my wetsuit and all that, I'll warm up, don't overthink it kind of thing. And then I remember walking back up the hill, and a few of my mates were talking to me, and I just remember... they, like, a couple of times were like, "You're all right, you're slurring your words a bit," and I was like, "No, I'm fine," whatever kind of thing. Then got to the car, and I couldn't do simple things like open the car door or find my car keys, and things like that. And I, yeah, would have had some mild form of hypothermia.

Michael Frampton
Sounds like it, yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Oscar Hetherington
But I kind of got to the point where I was like, no, just—the waves are firing, I'll just keep shooting. And then, yeah, I was young, had the wrong equipment for sure. So I went home that night and, yeah, bought a full-on winter wetsuit with a hood, some new booties, some gloves, all of that. Because yeah, I just got taught a lesson that day. Yeah, if anyone else has been in a similar experience, you'll know it takes like the rest of the day to warm up basically. You get home, have a hot shower, have hot food, you know, and you just can't feel much. Basically, you can't really think, you're kind of just lethargic and slow. Yeah, that was probably one of the scariest moments, for sure. And I think that was inexperience on my part. Maybe a bit of overconfidence being young, but yeah.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. You're lucky. You've learnt the lesson there. Not the easy way, but not the hard way either.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, I think it was like on the fence that day.

Michael Frampton
What's the biggest waves you've been out in, either surfing or shooting?

Oscar Hetherington
I think I've definitely surfed a few days down south where it's been pretty solid. Double overhead on a few of the points down there where you don't get many people. That's definitely the fastest I've gone on a surfboard as well. There's a left down there that I love, but yeah, you've got to... I don't know. Yeah, it's a funny point break. I'm not going to name it or anything, but the wave breaks along the point, just like a lot of point breaks. There's no beach or anything that it goes into. It kind of just sweeps past the coast and then just goes back to nothing—like it's just open ocean. And you sit out there some days, and it's so scary because the water's dark and deep and murky. There's kelp around, there's big sea lions, and yeah, that's probably some of the biggest and spookiest at the same time conditions that I've surfed in. But yeah, you get to go pretty fast down some of those waves, ride a bigger board as well, which is super fun. And yeah, don't worry too much about getting barreled or doing the perfect turn or anything. You're just hanging on for dear life. And then shooting... I've shot probably some similar conditions, but you've got to pick and choose when you shoot in the water versus on land, I find. Because at a point like that, shooting in the water—it's an option, but when it's that big and there's that much water moving and things like that, and you don't have a board, it's pretty high risk. Yeah, and there's not... down south where we did a lot of missions to remote waves and things like that. It's kind of like if something goes wrong down there, we've got no cell phone coverage, we're a two-hour drive from hospital or whatever. So you kind of just think, right, I might go surf, because you've got a flotation device, your mates are around and stuff, but if you're shooting, you're often sitting on the inside, the boys are focusing on surfing, they might be a few hundred meters away from you, so you're kind of by yourself. There's some big rocks around and all of that, so that's when I might choose to surf or shoot from land rather than get in the water. Yeah, so it's just kind of safety. I would love to shoot some bigger waves, but it's just the time and the place, really. You know, somewhere where there's a lot of people around, warm water—like, you see so many shots of Pipe and a lot of places like that. It's like... I'd like to say that I'd back myself to swim out and shoot some of those spots. I haven't ever had the chance to, and I'd still go in with the mindset that you've got to learn this wave and spend a lot of time watching it and all of that. Yeah, I think... comfort-wise, I'm confident in myself that it's doable. Yeah, some warm water would be nice, yeah. And just...

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Much nicer. Yeah, I guess we don't really get huge—well, nothing compared to Hawaii—here in New Zealand.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. Nah, not really swell-wise?

Michael Frampton
Yeah. No, not the 18, 20-second swells. They're pretty rare. Yeah. And the wind's all over it when we get them anyway.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There's a funny story as well that springs to mind. I shot from land this day simply because it was huge and wild, but it was one of my favorite spots down at the bottom of the South Island. We drove in there—I think there were three mates and myself. We got the car stuck on the way in there, had to push it out of the ditch because there was a foot of snow on the ground, middle of winter. One of the guys forgot his booties, and he was like, "This is the best day ever." It was, yeah, double overhead barrels. Just crazy day. And the boys all went out, and within an hour one of them had come in with a snapped fin box and two others had snapped their boards. And we were just like, holy moly. It was just a massive storm—like four or five metre waves coming in, 40k an hour offshore, hail for half an hour, sun for half an hour, hail for half an hour. It was... yeah, that was a pretty full-on day. But it's, I don't know, one of those days that you'll remember for a while, because even though no one got the best wave of their life, I got a few photos but nothing crazy. But it was just, yeah, like, I don't know. We gave it a good go in the ocean and Mother Nature just showed us who's boss.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Yeah, those days—you got to keep going out though. You never know. The wind drops off for half an hour, and you get one of those waves. You can take a photo of one. Yeah. What about your own surfing? Like, how's that going? Do you film yourself to get better? In what ways are you progressing and learning?

Oscar Hetherington
I've never filmed myself, honestly. It's pretty rare. It's one of those funny things—like I'm always shooting and stuff like that, but if anyone wants to take any photos of me at any point, I'd love it, because it's pretty rare that anyone gets a photo or video of me doing something I love, which is surfing, really. But yeah, I'm definitely surfing a lot more now than I used to, because, like I say, I'm just shooting when it's really good. When it's like, yeah, one of the best days of the year kind of thing, that's when I'll shoot. And if it's not quite up to that standard, I'll go and surf. So I find that I'm surfing two or three times a week and shooting a couple times a month. Still, I like to keep my camera with me in case the conditions turn on even for half an hour or whatever. Doing some commercial shooting as well and shooting some fun lifestyle creative stuff, but definitely just focusing, yeah, on my own surfing. And more time in the water—it keeps you fit and healthy and all of that good stuff too.

Michael Frampton
You're not tempted to leave the camera on the dashboard, just on a tripod on the beach, film yourself?

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. I don't know. I just need to become friends with a few photographers or pay someone to film me. But yeah. I'm not too worried about it. Like I say, it's always nice when someone does get a photo of you or a video or whatever, and then you can analyze it a little bit. But I think, yeah, like I mentioned earlier, when I surf nowadays, after most waves, I'll kind of break down what I think I could have done better or what I read wrong and things like that. So I think that's maybe one of the biggest ways that I'm kind of trying to improve my surfing—reflecting on it straight after it happens rather than getting back to the car and being like, "That was an alright surf," but not knowing why it was alright or why it could be better. It's kind of in the moment, reflecting on that.

Michael Frampton
Yep. No, self-reflection is one of the key things, and people are often scared to do it—they don't...

Oscar Hetherington
Want to. And it's definitely... there's always a fun side of surfing. Like, yeah, that's the main reason I surf is for fun obviously. But I do—like, you do want to get better, you know, as well. It's just a natural thing. Yeah, for sure. And I think too, like, I've tried to vary my surfing a little bit. I just used to only surf shortboards. I've got a log recently, which has just been super fun for when the conditions aren't perfect or when it's just waist-high, or like some of those smaller, more average days and stuff. Just finding different ways to enjoy surfing. And that's something that's kind of kept me hooked and kept me motivated. Even if you have a long flat spell for a month, you can still get out in the water and have some fun and try something different—new bits of equipment and stuff. But yeah, it keeps it interesting.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. Switching up your equipment is huge for your surfing. Yeah. Having a quiver of boards for certain conditions, yes. Because then, when it is pumping and you jump back on your shortboard, you'd be surprised how much you've improved because you've been riding different boards and reading waves differently because of...

Oscar Hetherington
It. And I think as well, one area—I guess it's kind of improving my surfing—but it's just looking into equipment more and why certain boards or shapes or fin setups or whatever work better in certain conditions, and why things feel different under your feet as well. I think a lot of surfers, I don't know, they may go buy a new board and be like, "Right, it's got to be six foot and 34 litres," or whatever. That's all that matters. But it's like, no, there's a whole lot more to it. And maybe that comes from a photography point of view where there's a lot of technical aspects to it and stuff. Maybe that's what interests me about it. But the equipment side of surfing is something I'm—like, you can always learn more about surfboards and yeah, all...

Michael Frampton
Of that stuff. Sometimes you don't need a brand-new 1D, $15,000 camera. In every situation, sometimes a Polaroid actually might be more suitable for what you want. Or same with surfing.

Oscar Hetherington
Whatever. Yeah, 100%.

Michael Frampton
I see especially around here... sometimes I go to Te Awanga, and it's waist-high, and there's people out on these skinny shortboards that are meant for double overhead barrels. Yeah. And that... they're not catching waves. They're getting angry. I'm like, yeah. Like the amount of it—it's sort of like taking a Ferrari out where a Land Cruiser should be.

Oscar Hetherington
Exactly.

Michael Frampton
It makes no sense. So yeah, choosing the right board for the conditions and stepping away from that performance shortboard I think is... whereas overseas, especially in California, people are embracing the bigger, more alternative surfboards. I mean, look at some of the Album Surf... if you follow them at all. Yeah. Even when pros—when pros stop, when they're not competing—they're not on those boards either. They're on a fish or some weird shape or a longer board or whatever.

Oscar Hetherington
No, very rarely. Only the good days, yeah. And all of that—trying different equipment and surfing different spots—they go hand in hand. But it's that new experience or new feeling or experimenting and exploring—that's what keeps it interesting. You know what I mean? It's like you never quite know what you're going to get. But yeah, equipment—like, it's... yeah, surfboards. Super interesting. I think the rabbit hole with surfboards is a lot bigger than most surfers realize. Like you say, people will go out when it's waist-high, and they'll be on a shortboard that's super high performance, like 28 litres or whatever, and it's just like, maybe you should have brought a mid-length out, or a log, or just something different.

Michael Frampton
Yes. People think Stab in the Dark is enough variance in surfboards where they're refining...

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. Millimetres.

Michael Frampton
It doesn't make any sense to me. I think big surfboards are underrated—hugely.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. It's so much fun surfing on a longboard or a log, in my opinion. It's different as well—you have to read the wave differently, you have to react differently. Or, you react and the board doesn't. It takes a lot longer. But yeah, it all improves your surfing and keeps it fun and exciting. I think that's super important.

Michael Frampton
Too. You mentioned exploration and adventure a lot. How important is that to you?

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. Reflecting back on it now, it's why I got into photography—why I picked up a camera—was because I loved going to new places with friends. And normally it was a sport or an activity or an adventure or whatever that would take us to those new spots. And I think, I don't know, the whole... I feel like there's just so much to see in the world and so much to do that it's like, why be content with surfing the same beach break week after week? You know what I mean? You can drive an hour from your hometown, and I bet there's a beach that you haven't been to.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. And there's probably no one surfing it.

Oscar Hetherington
Know. Yeah. I've had some experiences recently when it's... yeah, we have looked at Google Earth and watched swell patterns and weather forecasts and things like that, and yeah, driven an hour from here and scored perfect waves with no one around. And I'm kind of like, wow. Like, why not? Like, what? You know what I mean? Like... if you're, yeah, I think if you're willing to go on an adventure and like, put yourself out there, give it a crack... you know, what's the worst that can happen? For sure.

Michael Frampton
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Yeah, that's what they say. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Especially with surfing.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. And I think that there's so many... like, back to surfing being more than just standing up on a wave—the whole culture and lifestyle around it—the adventure side of it is, like, I love that just as much as I love surfing. Because you can read a swell for a couple of days, make a plan with your friends, go on a road trip, camp out for the weekend, and like, yeah, you might spend four or five hours surfing over that weekend, but you might spend four or five hours in a car, sitting around a campfire telling stories, cracking jokes, walking around the rock pools, going snorkeling, going fishing, whatever it may be. But those are all, like, side effects of going surfing essentially, but they're all so much fun. So it's like, why not go on an adventure, and surfing might be the excuse.

Michael Frampton
Often you don't—you get skunked, you don't get any waves. Yeah. But you don't regret.

Oscar Hetherington
Going. Exactly. Yeah. Some of, like, most of the best stories and the funniest memories and things like that are from surf trips that are... like, it's not when you're surfing the funny moments always happen, or the best times always are.

Michael Frampton
Yeah. So you mentioned the Follow the Light, right? And you said that was a goal of yours. Yeah. And you achieved that. What's next?

Oscar Hetherington
It's a good question. I think... it's a funny one. Winning the Follow the Light last year, that's... I don't know. I feel like there's almost more pressure now than before. Because looking at my name on that list of other people that have won it in the past and seeing their work from when they've won it, they've somehow managed to keep making amazing imagery or new imagery or finding new angles, all sorts of stuff like that. So I feel like now it's kind of like... I know there's, yeah, there's a lot that I want to shoot all around the world, and there's lots of different ways to shoot spots that have been shot hundreds of times before too. Goal-wise, I guess, in competitions with photography and things like that, I'd love to be recognized or do something with National Geographic at some point. It's not super related to surfing as such, but it's more just... like, some of their photographers and stuff over the years have been the best in the world—captured the most amazing images that people will talk about for years and years to come. You know what I mean? You could pick up one of their magazines from 20 years ago and a lot of people will recognize that photo. So yeah, I'd love to do something either with them or win one of their awards. I think that would be... yeah, I do.

Michael Frampton
Do you do more photography outside of surfing or...?

Oscar Hetherington
I guess my main focus is surfing and seascapes and things like that. But within reason, anything that interests me or inspires me, I'll shoot it as well. Yeah, but then there's... not always to—like fishing, for example, I'm never going to take photos of fishing. I'll go fishing. Or I'll go ride my bike or go tramping or whatever it may be, but I'm probably not going to shoot those things anymore. I'm just focusing on shooting surfing. Yeah. One day I'd love... I sell prints at the moment, which is awesome. I think that's probably the best way to appreciate photography—blowing it up big, framed on the wall, whether it's an office or in your house or wherever it may be. I think print is slowly dying with surfing magazines and things like that. Everyone still loves seeing a photo blown up big. You can appreciate that a lot more than looking at it on your phone, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I think one day, pushing that further, I'd love to make a book of some sort. When I was at university, I made one—like, just a 130-page kind of magazine. I only made 100 copies, I think, of it, which is cool to look back on. But yeah, I'd love to come up with some big adventure that kind of deserves to have a book made about it. Yeah, if that makes sense. I'm not sure exactly what that would look like at the moment, but whether it's... I know a few ideas could be driving around the whole of South America for a year or two with a couple of mates and just going surfing, exploring new cultures, new places, food, people, landscapes, waves, all of that. But yeah, I mean, like, who wouldn't love to look at a book full of cool images of a trip like that, you know what I mean? Yeah, and going... for me, travelling and adventure and things like that—going to different places that are out of the way, that are harder to get to, that are more dangerous—whatever, that makes them more interesting to me. Yeah, everyone goes to Hawaii. Everyone goes to Fiji. Everyone goes to Indonesia and stuff, and they have some of the best waves in the world. But you've seen photos of them hundreds and hundreds of...

Michael Frampton
Times. It's been done to death. Yeah. Yeah, I want to see it. Sounds like you're very photojournalistically inclined.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah. In a way. Yeah, I think so, definitely. Yeah. You would have seen some of the boys—Guy Williment and Spencer Frost and Lettie, and a few of those other boys all went to Russia. Yeah, they went surfing on the—I think it was the Kamchatka Peninsula, which is above Japan. Yeah, surfed in the snow over there for three months. I'm like, that's awesome. No one's been over there, surfed over there, lived over there—well, from our point of view, you know what I mean? It's just something so out there and so unique that... yeah, that inspires me. And trips like that are what I'd love to do. Why not go to Chile or... thank you, I don't know... yeah, Africa, Madagascar, India. Like, you know, there's a lot of countries out there with incredible coastline.

Michael Frampton
A lot of islands. Yeah. Around, not far from New Zealand, like Norfolk Island. I'm sure it's been shot before—waves.

Oscar Hetherington
But... probably got good. Yeah, one of my big goals would be travelling and shooting and surfing, for sure.

Michael Frampton
I'd say so. Yeah.

Oscar Hetherington
Where to first? I don't know. Good question. There's too many options at the moment.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, well, you never know what might happen with the Billabong...

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, exactly. Might lead, for sure.

Michael Frampton
Somewhere else. Yeah.

Oscar Hetherington
And it's a funny one too. I find a lot of people all around the world—but in New Zealand too—they'll go on surf trips to Hawaii or Indonesia, Bali, wherever. But I feel like there's so many good waves that are undiscovered around New Zealand too. A lot of them have been discovered now, but like, yeah, there's still places I haven't been to—Taranaki yet. Yeah, which blows your mind, but you know, it's only a few hours in the car.

Michael Frampton
Yeah, there's places everywhere. I mean, I lived in California, which is crowded. It's crazy crowded. But you can drive half an hour out of town and surf by yourself.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, exactly.

Michael Frampton
And that's true almost anywhere. If you're willing to go a little bit further than everyone else, you find waves that aren't crowded. And that's what every surfer listening to this wants—uncrowded waves.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, exactly.

Michael Frampton
Everyone's complaining about how crowded it is, but just get in the car or travel. I think travel and adventure is certainly not lost in surfing. It's not as... the surfing magazines used to document it so much—yeah, that whole travelling adventure aspect of it. And now it's all, like you said, it's all the best shots from Hawaii or whatever swells.

Oscar Hetherington
Yeah, it's an interesting one. Another person that's inspired me a lot, shooting-wise, has been Nick Green. I don't know if you've seen some of his stuff. He's based in Tasmania in Aussie. And I don't know, he's just... he's an amazing photographer. But he's shooting waves that a lot of people, like, don't know where they are. You know, no one's seen them before. And he's got some good mates who are incredible surfers who make the place look amazing too. But it's all this new imagery coming out. Everyone's seen shots of Snapper and Bells and WA and Margaret River and all of that. But like Tasmania... yeah, it'll be cold and stuff, but yeah, there's awesome waves everywhere. So just got to go out and find them, I guess, really.

Michael Frampton
Yep. Yeah. Go out and find them. That's a good place to end, man. Thanks so much for taking the time to...

Oscar Hetherington
Chat. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Thanks very much for having me on.

95 Oscar Hetherington - Award Winning Surf Photographer

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