S3 E8. ICE(?) PART II – The Polish-Muscovite War

Casting Lots: A Survival Cannibalism Podcast

What connects survival cannibalism and the house of Romanov? The answer is, of course, the Battle of Moscow of 1612.

CREDITS

Written, hosted and produced by Alix Penn and Carmella Lowkis.

Theme music by Daniel Wackett. Find him on Twitter @ds_wack and Soundcloud as Daniel Wackett.

Logo by Riley. Find her on Twitter and Instagram @tallestfriend.

Casting Lots is part of the Morbid Audio Podcast Network. Network sting by Mikaela Moody. Find her on Bandcamp as mikaelamoody1.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

• ‘Battle of Moscow (1612).’ (2021). Wikipedia. Available at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow_(1612)
• Bond, J. et al. (2010). ‘Cannibalism in medieval europe/asia’. 7 September. Total War Centre. Available at: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?387622-cannibalism-in-medieval-europe-asia
• Cavendish, R. (2013). ‘The First of the Romanov Tsars is Crowned’, History Today, 63(7). Available at: https://www.historytoday.com/archive/first-romanov-tsars-crowned
• Doultseva, T. et al. (2020). To the younger generation living abroad about the heroic feat of the Defenders of the Russian Land: from the Battle of the Neva to the Capture of Berlin. Jyväskylä: Mosaiikki. Available at: http://mosaiikki.info/history/books/bookEng/HistoryEng.pdf
• Istmira. (n.d.). Second people’s militia-briefly. Available at: https://www.istmira.com/w-hist/history-of-russia/3943-second-peoples-militia-briefly.html
• Kluchevsky, V.O. (1913). A History of Russia. Vol. 3. Translated by C.J. Hogarth. London: J.M. Dent. Available at: http://www2.dsu.nodak.edu/users/dmeier/A%20History%20of%20Russia,%20Volume%203,%20V.O.%20Kliuchevsky.pdf
• KP-TTS. (2020). The last days of Poles in the Kremlin. Battle of the Great Field Exile Polish Interventory in 1612. Available at: https://kp-tts.ru/en/iii-poslednie-dni-polyakov-v-kremle-bitva-na-devichem-pole-izgnanie-polskih.html
• Malloy, D. (2017). Natasha, Pierre & the Great Comet of 1812 (Original Broadway Cast Recording). New York: I Hear Guitars. Available at: https://open.spotify.com/album/3Ohwm7WsUS6AJd56VnNlJX?si=hgF6vljGQMS5ecYBjCL-ww
• ‘Polish–Lithuanian occupation of Moscow’. (2021). Wikipedia. Available at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian_occupation_of_Moscow
• ‘Polish–Muscovite War (1605–1618)’. (2021). Wikipedia. Available at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Muscovite_War_(1605%E2%80%931618)
• Shubin, D.H. (2009). ‘The Era of Tsar Boris Feodorovich Godunov’, in Tsars and Imposters. New York, NY: Algora, pp. 57-78.
• Thompson, J.M. (2012). ‘Ivan the Terrible and the Time of Troubles’, in Russia and the Soviet Union. Boulder, CO: Westview Press.
• Tucker, S.C. (ed.) (2010). ‘Eastern Europe: Polish-Russian War (Continued)’, in A Global Chronology of Conflict. Vol. 2. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO, p. 564. Available at: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=h5_tSnygvbIC&pg=PA564&lpg=PA564#v=onepage&q&f=false
• Woźnica, K. (2016). ‘Famine and poverty in the army during the reign of the House of Vasa in the light of reports and diaries’, Historia i Świat, 5, pp. 169-190. Available at: https://repozytorium.uph.edu.pl/bitstream/handle/11331/2412/Famine_and_poverty_in_the_army.pdf?sequence=1

TRANSCRIPT

Alix: Have you ever been really, really hungry?

Carmella: You’re listening to Casting Lots: A Survival Cannibalism Podcast.

A: I’m Alix.

C: I’m Carmella.

A: And now let’s tuck into the gruesome history of this ultimate taboo…

[Intro Music – Daniel Wackett]

C: Welcome to Episode Eight, where we’re learning about the Polish-Muscovite War.

[Intro music continues]

A: In this episode I am going to be getting my Victor Hugo, my Herman Melville or most suitably my Leo Tolstoy on and going so far off on a tangent that I eventually loop back to my original point.

C: ‘Although it in no way concerns’ – etc, etc.

A: Exactly. Because the first time we ever delved into Russian history on Casting Lots-

C: Siege of Leningrad.

A: Siege of Leningrad. We actually started in the nineteenth century, we did ‘Alix, Carmella and the great survival cannibalism of 1812’

(Carmella laughs)

A: I was very proud of that one.

C: Yeah, very good that one.

A: With Napoleon’s invasion of Russia-

C (singing to the tune of Letters): In nineteenth century Russia we eat bodies, we eat bodies.

A: But this time we’re going to be going back two centuries before then exactly. To 1612.

C: Okay.

A: Back to Moscow, and to the birth of a dynasty.

C: Ooh.

A: Carmella, would you like to learn how the House of Romanov emerged out of the ashes of survival cannibalism?

C: Absolutely!

A: I thought you might. Now, first of all, I know we’ve already made reference to Great Comet.

C: Sorry!

A: But the Prologue bears referencing here you are “gonna have to study up a little bit / If you wanna keep with the plot / ’Cuz it’s a complicated Russian [story] / Everyone’s got nine different names”.

C: Hurrah.

A: So this might get a little bit confusing.

C: Our episodes are never confusing, or indeed, confused.

A: Perfect clarity at all times. Now the Romanovs rose in the rank of the aristocracy under Ivan the Terrible-

C: Ah, remember him from the previous episode? If you haven’t listened to these in order, then you won’t! Maybe listen to that episode first?

A: We’ll pause here, go back and listen and then- it’s nice to have you back.

C: Welcome back! You now know all about Ivan the Terrible.

A: Ivan the Terrible married Anastasia Romanovna on February 3^rd 1547, and this wedding is the connection between the two Russian dynasties – the Rurikids and the Romanovs, but it is most certainly not a smooth link. After all one of the most famous things about Ivan…?

C: Is that he’s terrible.

A: Is that he’s terrible. The murder of his own son and heir, Ivan [exasperated Russian noise]-

C: Ivan the murdered.

A: Ivan the murdered, Ivan Ivanovich who was killed in 1581. Despite having had six children with Anastasia the inheritor of the Tsar-ship was Feodor Ioannovich in 1584. I’m going to apologise here to anyone who knows how to pronounce Russian.

C: Or even to the people who don’t know how to pronounce Russian but know that that aint it.

A: The best way of thinking about Feodor is for a UK comparison Henry VI? A bit of a religious drip, not really into the whole monarchy thing, quite into his wife but much more focused on being pious and content to leave the ruling side of things to others.

C: I love how you assume like, they don’t know about these Russian monarchs but they’ll know all about Henry VI.

A: Henry VI is my favourite Shakespeare play and therefore everyone shares interests with me.

(Carmella laughs)

C: I don’t think I could tell you a single fact about Henry VI other than there’s a Shakespeare play.

A: I don’t think that leaving it for others to deal with has ever been a successful strategy for leadership –

(Carmella laughs)

C: That, that just tends to be a great leadership strategy that’s often used.

A: Not in monarchies-

C: No.

A: Especially when you don’t have an heir.

C: Hmm.

A: Following Feodor’s death in 1598 the Times of Troubles comes about, it’s a succession crisis merged with a violent uprising, famine, usurpers and the Polish-Muscovite War.

C: Oh, beautiful.

A: Now, while I’m sure there was survival cannibalism during the famine of 1601–1603 – in fact, I’ve got a source depicting that, quote, “people […] like animals, ate grass during the summer and hay during the winter … human flesh, finely ground, baked in pies […] was sold and consumed like beef.”

C: I have to say that animals don’t tend to bake human flesh in pies.

A: There was a comma inbetween-

C: I get you, I get you.

A: There was square brackets in between the two parts of that quote.

C: Okay, that makes more sense.

A: Although have you read Animal Farm?

C: Very true.

A: But, do you know what? I don’t want to do another famine. So we’re going to look at the Polish-Muscovite War. Because it’s not just Russia who is a big player in Europe at this time and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth aka the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania have been butting heads with their Russian neighbours for years. And what better time for an invasion attempt than the Time of Troubles?

C: You know, there’s already problems. Just add another problem to the pile baby.

A: Russia’s practically in a civil war at the moment –new Tsar Boris Godunov, who had been the lead advisor under Feodor, see it never works out well.

C: Hmhmm.

A: Well he is not a fan of the Romanovs, hold onto this fact, but also remember that Ivan and Anastasia had six children who would be half Romanov, and Russia has a long, long history of usurpers and pretenders-

C: Indeed.

A: So as Poland thinks, why not strike while your enemy is a bit distracted?

C: Yeah. Get them while they’re down.

A: Very sporting. This sets the scene for war. At first this is cold war.

C: Aha! No pun intended.

A: The worst part is that wasn’t intended when I wrote the script.

(Carmella laughs)

A: With Polish various nobles supporting the ‘False Dmitries’.

C: Oh, the false Dmitires?

A: There are either five or six false Dmitires, some people wonder whether or not they just recorded the fifth one twice.

(Carmella laughs)

A: But these are some of the imposters and pretenders who are trying to take the throne.

C: Hmhm.

A: One of the Dmitries makes it all the way to the Tsarship in 1605!

C: Okay, pretty successful.

A: I know there must be a real name for Tsarship but at this point I’ve finished my script, I’m not researching anything further, it is the Tsarship from here on in.

C: Tsardom?

A: ‘Will make it all the way to the position of Tsar’ doesn’t have the same pizzazz.

C: It’s all about the pizzazz here at Casting Lots.

A: It’s certainly all about the pizzazz in erm seventeenth century Russia, I’m telling you that.

C: Oh.

A: The Polish-Muscovite War becomes hottest in 1609-

C: So it was cold, now it’s hot-

A: Now it’s hot, there’s all sorts of stuff going on. This is when Poland successfully invades Russia. Because King Sigismund III of Poland he doesn’t want his people to being supporting various Dimitriies-

C: No, only, only Sigismund, no Dimitri.

A: He wants to be Tsar!

C: Ah. Well, I mean, if Dimitri can do it then anyone can.

A: Dimitri the forth or third or second or fifth.

C: Whichever Dimitri it was.

A: Now, where we start getting interested is in September 1610 when the Polish-Lithuanian army successfully take Moscow after the Battle of Klushino, they depose the latest in a long line of Tsars, Tsar Vasili IV. Those in Moscow – clearly aware that they’re on the wrong side – or at least the losing side of this particular battle, acknowledge the son of King Sigismund as Tsar – although because daddy also wants to be Tsar Wladyslaw never takes up the title.

C: You know, like father, not like son.

A: I have the feeling that Sigismund would be a little bit unhappy if his son became Tsar before him. Now, not surprisingly most of Russia isn’t distracted enough by the Times of Troubles not to notice the invasion?

(Carmella laughs)

C: I have to say it was ballsy strategy but it didn’t quite pay off there.

A: Yeah, most people aren’t too pleased! But this just adds to the general tension in the country at the time.

C: Adding troubles on the pyre one at a time. Don’t know why it’s a pyre.

A: Don’t know why it’s a – hold onto that thought for later.

C: Okay!

A: Polish forces will hold Moscow for two years. Which I think is actually quite impressive.

C: Yeah.

A: There are a lot of political and military goings on at this point, alliances are made and broken between Russia and Sweden and Poland and there are divisions within Poland despite the invasion, but because this is already complicated enough so we’re going to focus in on what’s happening in Moscow.

C: What is happening in Moscow Alix?

A: Now, my sources aren’t telling me how well the Russian population of Moscow, and the surrounding towns and cities are being treated by the invading Polish-Lithuanian forces.

C: Is that just because it’s too many words?

(Laughs)

A: I’m going to imagine that it’s not good. Certainly, if the reaction of the citizens of Moscow are anything to go by people aren’t all that pleased with being occupied by an invading force.

C: They’re not?!

A: Just ungrateful isn’t it?

C: So weird, I’d be totally cool with that you know.

A: The resistance is fairly quiet during 1610, but by the spring of 1611 the citizens of Moscow have started rebelling violently.

C: Good for them.

A: These uprisings are suppressed, equally as violently.

C: Less good for them.

A: At least at first. In the March of 1611, the people cease a munitions storage facility in the city-

C: Oh hoho, that’s gonna go well.

A: Yeah, the Polish troops fight back killing approximately 7,000 and set fires which consumes a large part of Moscow.

C: That’s erm, that’ll put an end to that then.

A: Except it doesn’t!

C: That’ll make them angrier then.

A: Because to be honest the Polish garrison who are holding the city aren’t in the best shape –not exactly fighting fit, it’s been a long hold of Moscow, it’s quite difficult for food to be brought in for the troops because of the whole invasion thing.

C: Hm.

A: And Polish army haven’t been being paid…

C: Oh.

A: In fact by 1612 parts of the army will mutiny because of unpaid wages, all of which puts the Polish troops at a bit of a disadvantage.

C: Always unionise folks.

A: Up the workers.

C: But maybe not the invading soldiers, I dunno?

A: It’s like you don’t support them, but they should be being paid for their labour.

C: They should be being paid for the murders that they’re doing. Yes.

A: A radical take here at Casting Lots.

(Laughs)

A: Now, this is when a bit of dramatic irony takes places – because once things start to turn in 1611 the Polish troops seize the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Hermogenes and order him to sign a statement on behalf of the Russian people calling off all Russian attacks on the city.

C: Does he have the authority to do that?

A: He’s currently the most important Russian in the city of Moscow as everyone else has either been killed or buggered off.

(Carmella laughs)

C: Guess he does then.

A: It’s like wheeling out the Archbishop of Canterbury if there’s no-one else left.

(Carmella laughs.)

A: Like, I’m not religious but I feel that if the situation called for it that they needed an authority figure I would understand someone grabbing the Archbishop of Canterbury and asking for a statement.

C: It’s like when you go into a shop and the manager’s not in, and the assistant manager’s not in and you’re like ‘look, I’ve gotta talk to someone’.

A: Hermogenes refused to sign this and in punishment, he’s starved to death.

C: Oh, hohoho! Oh, how God will repay you for this blow against the Patriarch.

A: And speaking of being starved to death, the poorly armed People’s Militia alongside the people of Moscow rebel again in 1611 and besiege the Polish garrison inside the Kremlin. They actually manage to force the troops to retreat.

C: Oh! Well done to them.

A: But retreat inside an armed fortification within the city of Moscow.

C: But still, siege, always a good way to go.

A: It puts them in a powerful position.

C: Yeah.

A: The First People Militia are quite successful, but poorly organised and ultimately fail to take the Kremlin, they do try, but they are in a position to hold the Polish garrison under siege. It had already been difficult enough for the Polish garrison to be supplied with food while occupying Moscow –

C: It’s gonna be harder now!

A: Yeah! Food had to be collected by force from outside the city, and now, the Polish soldiers really are on the backfoot. It took months for carts of provisions to enter Moscow in 1611, what with all the rebellions and the uprising and the fires going on. And while in the January of 1612 a regiment does break through the lines to temporarily ease the food situation – a situation that was affecting civilians as well as soldiers – bread being sold at a mere 30 times its regular price.

C: Oh, so affordable.

A: The food situation inside the Kremlin is dire.

C: I can imagine but I would say that’s what happens when you retreat inside an armed fortification and are just stuck there-

A: Without any food.

C: Yes. Seems like you could have retreated elsewhere perhaps, not to blame them or anything.

A: Not to victim blame.

C: Not to victim blame, but.

A: A seventeenth century Polish poem even humorously references the conditions within the Kremlin that quote “the dishes that were served to us were hard to tell about, we ate what we got, be it a dog or a cat.”

C: Ha, very humorous, ho ho ho.

A: It rhymes in Polish, I have been told.

C: Okay, okay. I mean if you just said cat really weirdly you could kind of force it?

A (inexplicable): “We aaeeete what we got, be it a dog or a kait?”

C: Yes.

A: Perfect.

C: I was, “we ate what we gat, be it a dog or a cat”?

A: That works better, yeah.

(Laughs)

A: The Garrison are now trapped inside the fortress of the Kremlin, and this siege will go on for nineteen months.

C: God, okay, and with very little food.

A: I know you don’t want to feel sorry for the Polish-Lithuanian garrison but you sort of end up being a bit sorry for them for nineteenth months.

C: I mean they are just people who’ve been sent there, right? And who aren’t being paid for it, apparently.

A: I am not not being paid enough for this. The people of Moscow continue the fight – it’s not just a fight for Moscow, I know we’re really zoomed but there is an entire war going on out there, somewhere-

C (singing the line from Prologue, Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812): There’s a war going on- (talking) nice nice, how many more Great Comet references are you gonna get in?

A: I think we’ve nearly reached the end of the Great Comet references.

C: We’ve managed not to make any Anastasia references yet, apart from the fact there’s someone called Anastasia and someone called Dmitri.

A: Everyone is called Dmitri.

C: I a- those are just names aren’t they?

A: This time the movement is more organised, the Second People’s Militia, also known as the Second Volunteer Army comes together led by Prince – guess what – Dmitry

(Carmella laughs)

A: Pozharsky and respected butcher and merchant Kuzma Minin.

C: Oh I respect that guy so much.

A: This time the volunteer army is well-armed, organised and ready to fight.

C: Well it sounds like the Polish-Lithuanian army is also volunteers! Whether they intend that to be the case or not.

A: Is that not the case for the rank and file in most militaries?

C: Very true.

A: The quote I have from Polish forces do strangely tend to be the officer class.

C: Hmm. Funny that.

A: The Second Volunteer Army successfully take cities and towns surrounding Moscow. This is now 1612, the Polish mutiny is taking place, meaning that Polish morale is low and anti-Polish morale is high.

C: That makes sense.

A: However, the news does come that there is a Polish relief army coming to support the garrison who have been besieged in the Kremlin for months. So, in the August of 1612 the Second People’s Militia enter Moscow first and add pressure to the Polish garrison inside the Kremlin. This is now an amazing double whammy siege going on.

C: A siege within a siege.

A: A siege within a siege.

C: Siegeception.

A: The 9,000 strong relief army has arrived for the troops trapped in the Kremlin. The Second People’s Militia is the filling in a Polish-Lithuanian siege sandwich.

(Carmella laughs)

A: But, despite the fact that the Polish hussars have additional Hungarian and German infantry troops with them, the Don Cossacks-

C: Hey! Those are the guys that Yermak led.

A: They’re supporting the Russians. The fighting was fierce and bloody.

C: It always is with the Cossacks.

A: The Polish garrison in the Kremlin try and help, but at this point they are pretty much useless. Sorry guys, well, they are.

C: It’s been like nineteen months, no one’s expecting them to be on top form.

A They’re not on any form. It’s gone from being a fight in the open to a fight in the streets of Moscow – you know that scene in Les Mis 2012 with the cavalryman riding sword drawn through Greenwich? Sorry, I mean Paris?

C: I know it intimately well.

A: Picture that in the narrow streets of Moscow.

C: I’m picturing, cinematic.

A: Very cinematic.

C (laughing): Do the streets of Moscow also look like Greenwich?

A: It’s amazing how many places across the world look just like the Old Royal Naval College.

(Carmella laughs)

C: Weird that.

A: The infrastructure of Moscow proves ineffective for the relief army’s invasion/siege tactics, and the Russians have the home advantage.

C: They’re on their own turf.

A: Exactly. There are two battles of Moscow, and victory is the Russians for both.

C: Well done Russians.

A: The Russians have their city back. Apart from the Kremlin.

C: Okay so that’s still, that’s still there.

A: The garrison- it’s still there to this day.

C: I mean the Polish-Lithuanian army is still there in the Kremlin.

A: The garrison in the Kremlin hold out until early November 1611 when they eventually surrender, having been starved into submission.

C: That will happe.

A: Safe passage is arranged for the surviving garrison troops.

C: Is it?

A: Half of the survivors are immediately massacred.

C: That, yeah, very safe. Safely into the gates of heaven.

A: Sike? So, what has been happening inside the Kremlin during this time?

C: Oh, do reveal all.

A: Well, I think we all know the answer to that don’t we?

C: Is the answer… … cannibalism?

A: Yes.

C: Cool.

A: End of episode.

C: Bye.

A: Lovely to see you guys.

C: Thanks for joining us.

A: The food shortages began in earnest in the spring of 1611, and by the latter stages of the year people were eating dogs, cats, mice, rats, leather and horses. And, yes, each other. First the prisoners were consumed, and then the corpses exhumed, and then the endocannibalism began. I was inspired by the poem from earlier.

C: That was beautiful. So, sorry, let me just, they start – they kill the prisoners and eat them.

A: Yes.

C: Before digging up the bodies that are already dead?

A: That is allegedly what my source says. I assume that the exhumed corpses were of their own soldiers, why the distinction is being made.

C: Yes but even so! They’re already dead.

A: It’s just wasteful.

C: Yeah, w’you’re gonna kill some new people when you’ve got some corpses right there? Like well I guess that they’re a bit old and manky, but even so it just seems quite rude to all the prisoners. Just because someone’s a prisoner doesn’t mean that they deserve to be killed and eaten. Call me a bleeding heart liberal if you will.

(Alix cackles.)

A: In these circumstances I’d say there’s probably not that much of a focus on keeping your prisoners healthy and happy? And in fact you probably don’t want to waste food on your prisoners, when your prisoners could in fact-

A&C in tandem: Be food.

C: Yeah, ‘kay.

A: Quote, “Human bodies were salted, smoked, roasted and boiled.”

C: Hmm, a very varied menu.

A: They were there for nineteen months, they had to do something.

C: Yeah I mean I’ve really been trying a lot of different recipes during lockdown to sort of enrich my experiences…

A: There is no recorded timeframe of when the survival cannibalism began, but as the wonderfully named ‘Famine and poverty in the army during the reign of the House of Vasa in the light of reports and diaries’ points out, these were soldiers amid an active siege, and quote a “soldier weakened with hunger could not fight effectively and defend his life.”

C: It’s true.

A: We have evidence of cannibalism from both Russian and Polish sources. A letter from a Polish commander who had been stationed within the Kremlin acknowledges the fate of the garrison “then it occurred rare, or at least not spoken about – but in our case almost blatant – case of eating ones of our own kind.”

C: So that is the endocannibalism situation, or does he just mean humankind rather than Polish-kind?

A: Considering that I had to slide into my friend’s DMs and Karol to translate it for me because I could only find that quote in Polish-

C: Oh so literally no idea, could say anything.

A: I was like, I am sure from the context of this quote it… probably confirms cannibalism.

(Carmella laughs)

A: But for some reason the article has not translated anything in Polish. So there’s nothing quite like going up to your friends sliding, what is it? Like a five dollar bill and some cannibalism quotes across the table like, can you translate these for me?

C: Does this say cannibalism in it?

A: What are we gonna do when this podcast is over and we can’t traumatise our loved ones by talking about cannibalism at random times?

C: We can always talk about cannibalism at random times.

A: A lesson for life.

(Carmella laughs)

A: Journals kept during the siege note the spread of famine disease; scurvy, lack of nutrients and even – and again, a lot of this was in Polish, very hard for me to authenticate – but apparently there were cases of autocannibalism.

C: Oh, interesting!

A: People attempting to eat their own flesh to survive.

C: If you’re hungry enough… It’s got diminishing returns as a method of staying alive.

(Alix laughs)

C: Quite literally.

A: Once the siege was lifted gristly remains were discovered.

C: You don’t- I’m not surprised by that.

A: Salted human flesh was discovered by Cossack forces and quote, “and under the slings, there is a lot of human corpse.”

C: Eugh.

A: Now I’m not changing any of these translations, but they probably flow better in their original language.

C: I wonder how they identified the salted flesh as being human in origin. Would you easily be able to tell the difference between that and salted pork, or would you just assume like, they weren’t getting pigs from anywhere, must be human.

A: It’s a bit, it’s been nineteen months, there’s open graves-

C: Yeah. Inference.

A: And some meat. But the fact it was salted, I know we said it mockingly but they clearly did have time on their hands.

C: Yeah, and salt.

A: A lot of salt. But they were holding out for a siege. Keeping the meat fresh?

C: Yeah they had plans, they stocked their larders.

A: And then they all got slaughtered upon surrender.

C: Yep.

A: After King Sigismund learns of the capitulation of the garrison in the Kremlin he just turns around and nopes all the way back to Poland.

C: You would.

A: He had technically been leading another relief army and just decided, it’s not worth it.

C: They don’t need relief any more, they just need to be left.

A: So, what is Russia to do now that they have expelled the Polish Army from Moscow?

C: I don’t know, what are they to do?

A: And they temporarily expelled the Polish army out of Russia? Well, they need a new Tsar and quick. After a couple of other candidates turn down the opportunity-

C: Some more Dmitriis.

A: 16-year-old Michael Romanov is offered the crown.

C: Wow, they they really scraping the bottom of the barrel when you start turning to teenagers.

A: Oh just wait. He’s found in a monastery, he’s not too keen on the idea, in fact he cries when he’s offered the crown-

C: Oh aww. Baby.

A: But as the first cousin once removed of the last Rurikid Tsar Feodor and a great-nephew in-law of Ivan the Terrible, his lineage is top-notch. Those Rurkid and Romanov ties hark back to a period of stability, and as the Romanovs were seen as victims of Tsar Boris Godunov, he can really play the pity card.

C: Ah that’s why he was crying. Don’t trust him.

A: And so, in the February 1613 begins the House of Romanovs, Russia’s second reigning dynasty. So that’s what connects survival cannibalism, Great Comet and Anastasia.

C: Beautiful.

A: The Polish-Muscovite War winds down after the Capture, Siege and various Battles of Moscow and staggers to a formal truce in 1618. And to this day Poland and Russia don’t get on too well.

C: Not the besties.

A: No.

C: I have to assume that it’s not exclusively because of the one time there was a cannibal siege? There must be other stuff since right? Snowball effect.

A: Snowball effect. I don’t think it was just the cannibal siege that pissed off Russia, I think it was the whole-

C: The whole war.

A: The whole war. All of the invasion.

C: All of the war was upsetting. Not just the bit where they got stuck in the Kremlin and ate each other.

A: And also technically it was the Polish-Lithuanian forces that did the cannibalism.

(Carmella laughs)

C: The Russians just out there like well that’s a whole load of their problem.

A: Sitting there at the restaurant just watching.

C: Can’t hold it against them really.

A: Well there you go that is what connects survival cannibalism and the House of Romanov.

C: Beautiful. Next up House of Windsor.

(Alix laughs)

[Outro Music – Daniel Wackett]

C: Thank you for joining us for today’s episode on the Polish-Muscovite War. There’s a war going on out there somewhere, and literally all food isn’t here. I’m running out of Great Comet references.

A: We’ll just have to end the episode. Join us next time for something far less whimsical, as we look at the Vientamese ‘Boat People’.

[Outro music continues]

A: Casting Lots Podcast can be found on Twitter, Instagram and Tumblr as @CastingLotsPod, and on Facebook as Casting Lots Podcast.

C: If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more, don’t forget to subscribe to us on iTunes, Google Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and please rate, review and share to bring more people to the table.

A: Casting Lots: A Survival Cannibalism Podcast, is researched, written and recorded by Alix and Carmella, with post-production and editing also by Carmella and Alix. Art and logo design by Riley – @Tallestfriend on Twitter and Instagram – with audio and music by Daniel Wackett – Daniel Wackett on SoundCloud and @ds_wack on Twitter. Casting Lots is part of the Morbid Audio Podcast Network – search #MorbidAudio on Twitter – and the network’s music is provided by Mikaela Moody – mikaelamoody1 on Bandcamp.

[Morbid Audio Sting – Mikaela Moody]