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CoStar, Zillow, and Teams – What Fox & Roach President Joan Docktor Thinks

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Manage episode 285539752 series 2799160
İçerik TRIBUS tarafından sağlanmıştır. Bölümler, grafikler ve podcast açıklamaları dahil tüm podcast içeriği doğrudan TRIBUS veya podcast platform ortağı tarafından yüklenir ve sağlanır. Birinin telif hakkıyla korunan çalışmanızı izniniz olmadan kullandığını düşünüyorsanız burada https://tr.player.fm/legal özetlenen süreci takip edebilirsiniz.

Enjoying Brokerage Insider? Please Subscribe Using Your Favorite Podcast Player.

Joan Docktor, the well known president of Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Fox and Roach Realtors, sits down with TRIBUS CEO Eric Stegemann to discuss the changes in the real estate industry. CoStar bought HomeSnap and now is nearing an acquisition of CoStar to consolidate into the largest owner of real estate data in the world. Zillow bought ShowingTime and now has the available data for over 1/3 of all showings in the entire United States. Compass is getting ready to go public.

What should large brokerages be thinking about right now?

TRANSCRIPT

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Brokerage Insider the podcast where we interview the leaders in real estate and technology. I'm your host, Eric Stegman. And I'm the CEO of TRIBUS. We're one of the largest independent prop tech companies in real estate and providers of custom brokerage technology to medium and large sized brokerages all throughout the United States, Canada, Canada, and even around the world.

Now today on the show, I have the most sincere pleasure of having as my guests. Joan. Now Joan is the president of Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices, Fox and Roach Realtors. It's a division of HomeServices of America and one of the largest brokerages on its own in the entire country. On top of being part of home services, the largest brokerage in the entire country.

Fox & Roach has more than 5,500 sales professionals in 75 offices in Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Joan was recently named to the RIS Media Newsmakers Hall of Fame, along with other very prestigious folks like Sherry, Chris Allen Dalton, and the enforcement. Joan, thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy, busy schedule to join us here today.

Thank you so much, Eric. I really I'm pleased to be with you today and look forward to our conversation. Me too. Me too. So, you know, first I want to start with your background. You buck the trend of the average agent today, and that is you started your real estate career at Fox and Roach, right?

Yes, I did. I did. And I've never, ever left. We've just changed names many times and I've gone along for the ride that, yeah, for sure. Amazing. And if, if without going into specific numbers, you've been at Fox and Roach now for over 30 years, correct? Correct. Yes. And I could have gone anywhere. Sure.

Yeah. For sure. With your, with your pedigree now, now when you. Okay. Now I was going to say most agents have many choices and that that's, that's that's a great thing about real estate. We have so many choices and, and I remember when I joined, I was told, you know, if real estate, wasn't my thing, we had mortgage title insurance.

I could try out one of those businesses. For sure. I I've actually long joked about the the real estate industry. And one of my favorite things about it is that you could sell the same home three times and it would be different each time, right? Yes. Yes, it would. So it's, I, I listened to a different podcast and I could hear your passion for the business still after 30 something years in the industry, I could still feel your passion as I was listening to you on this other podcast.

And one of my favorite things about this business too, is that every person that enters this business, it seems like they're so positive. And more importantly, it seems like they're willing to bet their paycheck on the fact that they can wake up tomorrow and make a sale. What was it specifically that made you decide to go get your real estate license and starting the business?

Well, like many other agents we all buy and buy houses eventually, and we either have a great experience or we might not have such a good experience. And depending on where we are in our lives. And I was at a place in my life where I was not so happy with my current career bought a house. I had a pretty bad experience.

And I envisioned myself in the place of that realtor thinking that I could do much, much better for people. So that's kind of what started me off if that makes sense to you. And, and I, I had been a teacher, which many people know that about me and which I did enjoy. And I was a special education teacher and I taught emotionally disturbed boys.

So, what I really liked about that was the way I could help them in their personal lives, as well as educating them. However at the time that I decided to get into real estate, I was at a really a point of frustration in that these, these guys, these kids, they were 16 to 19 years old. Would learn a lot in class and, and we, we do group sessions and they would seem to move along emotionally, but they went home and they went home to really upsetting environments environments that caused them to be somewhat the way they were.

And I started to become frustrated that every day. I was, we were backtracking and not moving forward and I always liked to see progress. So I became frustrated. And at that very same time, you know, happened to buy a home and think, Hmm, maybe, maybe I could do this. Well, it sure seems like you did it. You know, and so.

How did you have that issue when you started selling real estate that so many agents do where it's, it's tough to get your first sale or did you start out and just, you know, it just came to you naturally and maybe within your first month or so you got your first closing. No, like most agents, you, you really have to work at this.

It doesn't just come to you. It's something you work at now. I got into the market in a very good, there were lots of buyers similar to market today, not many sellers, lots of buyers. And so I had and I had a sphere of influence. My kids. Friend's parents and various people who would come, came to me over the first few months that they were, you know, they had a plan that maybe they'd like to move.

And I had marketed myself. I had sent out announcements. I did what I needed to do. But it took a while. I worked open houses. I, I sat floor time at the time. I did everything that you can do to try to find buyers which. Which I did in the first year and obviously finding sellers and representing sellers is a little bit more difficult because you need to have a track record, but when you're representing a buyer, you know, you've, you really can move forward without a whole lot of experience and use your company experience as your experience.

So I worked buyers and actually I never had my first settlement for six months. And I was really frustrated by that. I think I sold a house within four months, but there was a two months, 60 day closing and then I sold another. So I had two settlements after six months. However the next six months per progress beautifully.

And I ended up being the rookie of the year, that year. So I think I did 3 million and in those days I wasn't selling a $500,000 houses. They were, you know, in the mid one hundreds or 200,000. So it was a lot of houses. And I knew from the very beginning, how much I really had passion for what I was doing, because for the first time, in a long time, I was working with people who actually wanted to be with me.

And I felt that finally I had, I, I came into my own and I found a career where that I appreciated as much as I was appreciated, which meant a lot. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that is that warm and fuzzy feeling. I always felt like when you have a good client and when they think you did a great job, a plus when they see that first house or that, you know, whatever a number of house it was that they saw and they walk in and they just love it.

And you're the person that opened up. That, that figurative and literal door for them. There's just something magical that happens in that moment. And I, one of the things, one of the things that I found, because there was such a scarcity of inventory, I would stay up hours and hours and we had to have MLS books at the time.

We didn't have a computer and I would, I would search for a needle in a haystack. Because I knew right then from, from my experience in the past, in my other career, that just because somebody was asking you for something, you might be able to help them with something slightly different and you could deliver something a little bit different, maybe a little bit outside of the area.

They requested maybe a house with another bedroom or one less bedroom, and that you could satisfy that buyer. With and be a little bit creative when doing so. Yeah, that's funny that you say that I actually used to train all of my agents and, and in my brokerage, I called it the 85% principle. And I said, if you can find 85% of what a client looks for that last 15% is always flexible.

You just got to hit all of the needs. And most of the wants and if you can get 85% of the way there, sometimes you can find people, things that they really weren't thinking of or in different neighborhoods or, or new construction that they weren't thinking about. Absolutely. It's that, that last 15% is where it's all at in this business.

I think looked at it. I hadn't looked at it that way. So you know, now we, here you are. 30 something years later and, and you're running the largest Berkshire Hathaway and, and you have 5,500 sales associates across the entire company in multiple States and in large region. But one of the things that I happen to know about you is you're very big on staying current.

Nick did with agents and your staff and everything like that. And they. Love it because you, it seems like you really care about them. Now I know one of the ways you do that is you reach out to some of them or maybe all of them on their birthdays, on their anniversaries of joining the company. How do you stay on top of that with 5,500 folks?

Well, let me say this. One of the ways that I stay in touch is I decided to do this actually during the pandemic. But I decided that that video has become so important and people seeing you and during the pandemic, we aren't able to be together. So I started to do a Monday morning video that I do every Monday morning.

No matter what, and it's just a short message, maybe a three minute video where they can see that I'm there during the pandemic. You know, I was. Giving some mental health advice advice at times, talk about our training, talk about the convention coming up, whatever. Maybe, you know, just some things that I hear from agents where they might say, you know, Joan, I'm really frustrated my best friend bought from another realtor.

How could they have done this to me? So we, we talk about how those things might happen and what to do about it and how to move on. And. Pick yourself up and brush yourself off and keep going. So we do that right at this point, as far as birthdays, as far as anniversaries, you have to have systems. So I have I have notifications in my phone that come up.

I and I also have some, some automatic systems. To be honest because with 5,500 people, if you didn't, it wouldn't get done. So I use technology to my advantage. In some of those cases, I make sure that I attend as many events as I possibly can to be in front of agents. I mean, to me, The agents give me my inspiration.

They make me want to wake up in the morning I admire. So what they do, I've done it. I know how hard it is. I know how passionate they are. And one of the things that I was a little bit apprehensive of when I went from being an agent to going into management was would I lose that passion? How would I recreate that passion?

And what I found very quickly was that. Being a sales office leader is similar to being an agent in that it's a relationship business. And so I was able to find that passion in my agents that I had found in my clients to help them. So now I could help many, many more people buy a home. Working through my agents and help my agents to have a better life, which I'm very passionate about.

So staying in front of them is, is kind of the fuel for my fire and whatever way I can do it. That's, that's what I do. That's great. So in, in. You know, 30 years of this, obviously there's been changes. You talked about just having systems in place. And, and obviously 30 years ago there wasn't systems.

Like we consider them today in terms of being able to track things, there was a Rolodex and, and post-it notes and, and by the way, too many agents still use post-it notes as their systems today, they're a system. If they were that's true works. If you can keep track of it, then that's great.

But. You know, in your experience over that period of time, what do you think the biggest change that's happened in the industry has been, Oh my goodness. There's been so many first off, you know, the internet came to be when I was in the business. And when before, I guess when I first managed there was no internet, so we right.

We were the gatekeeper. And how that has changed. We are, you know, we, we stopped being the gatekeeper in 2000 and the consumer had the information. So we always needed to be the trusted advisor for the consumer, but more than ever after the customer had the information, we certainly had to do that. And we had to create our value and our value and our expertise.

Was what was going to attract people to us, not the information. So that was, that's been a huge, huge change after that, you know, it it's, it's just been one change after another, you know, with these, the social media, and I'm sure I'm skipping a lot of years getting from the internet, Ben to social media, but certainly the way that people can You know, in the way that people can be with other people without having to leave their home, even before the pandemic really changed our business, the use of social media and letting people know that you, you know, that you, their kids want a soccer game and you applaud them or whatever, you don't have to be out and about as much to be as social as you might want to be.

So that's a big change. And I think over time you know, it used to be a market for brokers. When I got into the business, the broker was King. Then, then the agent was King. Then the consumer was King. The consumer is still King, but the agents are right up there behind them and they have so many choices and it's hard to decipher you know, which, which brokers best for them.

And oftentimes they're told things that don't come to be. And so I think it's harder for an agent today. As far as the consumer, there's so much information, so much on the internet and they really need the best agent they can find to decipher, you know, what their needs are and, and what will be best for them.

So, Lots of changes for sure. For sure. And one of the things you mentioned, you know, there was a sociologist, Robin Dunbar, have you ever heard of Dunbar's number before? Hmm, I think maybe, but I'm not familiar essentially. He came up with the concept that that the average person can only keep track of 150 relationships in their head and and have real meaningful relationships with them.

And of course, social media brought us to a position where. You know, you, you can still have a, a semi at least semi meaningful relationship with a whole lot more than 150 folks by just doing that applaud or, or, or staying connected in those ways, or, or certainly now in terms of using systems to keep track like a CRM of all of your clients and keeping track and, and touching base with them on a regular basis that has empowered us to grow.

And that's how you get to these. I think these mega teams and, and agents that are doing so much business. Not only are they great agents hopefully for the most part, but they're, they're also just very good at these systems and being able to grow that sphere of people that they can communicate with or stay in touch with on a regular basis.

So you, you bring up a good point because back when I started, there were no such thing as teams, right. That was a small broker in his office that, you know, we, we, as a company have have promoted teams since 2000. Incident that's, co-ed coincidentally with the beginning of the internet. Right. But we have really embraced teams from the beginning and we feel like they're a business within a business, but they have been able to grow in ways that are amazing since then.

And it used to be that a sales office leader sales office manager would have had enough experience to lead people. And maybe they did, you know, 7 million, 10 million, whatever. And now you have teams doing a hundred million and they look at their sales office manager, not necessarily as the, the content expert, because they never did as much business as this team is doing.

So that's a whole nother change in our industry. And, and so being a good coach is so important for our managers because You can, you can be a great coach without having actually done the same amount of business, for sure. And actually, if you don't mind, I'd love to dig into the teams concept with you for just a second.

Rob Hahn was on our podcast not too long ago. And Rob said that the biggest single threat. To the brokerage business is not, I buyers, it's not compass. It's not exp it's actually teams. First of all, do you agree or disagree with that? I don't agree. I think they're not a threat. That, I guess it depends on the way you look at it.

However, I think that a broker that doesn't embrace teams is threatened. Because teams are they work well for the consumer and they work well for the agents on the team and the team. So I think as a company, you've got to embrace teams and help them be a better team. So for instance, a lot of the team leaders are great sales agents, but they don't have that management experience and they need the help.

Have a great manager, a great company to help them and counsel them and coach them to be a manager, to a certain extent, to lead their people, to retain their people. So in my mind, as, as our job, as a brokerage is to help these teams and consult with these teams to help them to grow and to retain their best people.

And then you become an invaluable to them because you're helping them also with just not just the recruiting side and the retention side, but also the operation side. And that, that's actually something that I dug into with Rob of saying, you know, Hey, a lot of teams don't want to deal with this. But then his counter.

Point to me on that more or less was. Yeah, but even if they're paying 7% or, or some very low commission split percentage to the broker, that's still ends up to be a lot of money when you're selling $200 million a year, a real estate. So do you, do you think that the systems and the tools that can be provided by a brokerage?

Maybe not today, but let's say in five years from now, do you think the systems and the tools and the, the coaching, like you're talking about. And the recruiting and the retention capabilities for keeping people on teams. Do you think that's enough in five years from now to keep a mega team at a big broker?

Well, here's what I think about that. I don't think the systems and the tools are necessarily what will keep a team at a brokerage. I do think the relationship and the The counseling and the coaching is very important. They, the team are usually entrepreneurial and they want to differentiate themselves and they may not want to use any of the systems that you have because they don't want to look like another team or an, or another agent in your company.

They want to look very, very different. Now they may use...

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Manage episode 285539752 series 2799160
İçerik TRIBUS tarafından sağlanmıştır. Bölümler, grafikler ve podcast açıklamaları dahil tüm podcast içeriği doğrudan TRIBUS veya podcast platform ortağı tarafından yüklenir ve sağlanır. Birinin telif hakkıyla korunan çalışmanızı izniniz olmadan kullandığını düşünüyorsanız burada https://tr.player.fm/legal özetlenen süreci takip edebilirsiniz.

Enjoying Brokerage Insider? Please Subscribe Using Your Favorite Podcast Player.

Joan Docktor, the well known president of Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Fox and Roach Realtors, sits down with TRIBUS CEO Eric Stegemann to discuss the changes in the real estate industry. CoStar bought HomeSnap and now is nearing an acquisition of CoStar to consolidate into the largest owner of real estate data in the world. Zillow bought ShowingTime and now has the available data for over 1/3 of all showings in the entire United States. Compass is getting ready to go public.

What should large brokerages be thinking about right now?

TRANSCRIPT

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Brokerage Insider the podcast where we interview the leaders in real estate and technology. I'm your host, Eric Stegman. And I'm the CEO of TRIBUS. We're one of the largest independent prop tech companies in real estate and providers of custom brokerage technology to medium and large sized brokerages all throughout the United States, Canada, Canada, and even around the world.

Now today on the show, I have the most sincere pleasure of having as my guests. Joan. Now Joan is the president of Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices, Fox and Roach Realtors. It's a division of HomeServices of America and one of the largest brokerages on its own in the entire country. On top of being part of home services, the largest brokerage in the entire country.

Fox & Roach has more than 5,500 sales professionals in 75 offices in Delaware, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Joan was recently named to the RIS Media Newsmakers Hall of Fame, along with other very prestigious folks like Sherry, Chris Allen Dalton, and the enforcement. Joan, thank you so much for taking time out of your very busy, busy schedule to join us here today.

Thank you so much, Eric. I really I'm pleased to be with you today and look forward to our conversation. Me too. Me too. So, you know, first I want to start with your background. You buck the trend of the average agent today, and that is you started your real estate career at Fox and Roach, right?

Yes, I did. I did. And I've never, ever left. We've just changed names many times and I've gone along for the ride that, yeah, for sure. Amazing. And if, if without going into specific numbers, you've been at Fox and Roach now for over 30 years, correct? Correct. Yes. And I could have gone anywhere. Sure.

Yeah. For sure. With your, with your pedigree now, now when you. Okay. Now I was going to say most agents have many choices and that that's, that's that's a great thing about real estate. We have so many choices and, and I remember when I joined, I was told, you know, if real estate, wasn't my thing, we had mortgage title insurance.

I could try out one of those businesses. For sure. I I've actually long joked about the the real estate industry. And one of my favorite things about it is that you could sell the same home three times and it would be different each time, right? Yes. Yes, it would. So it's, I, I listened to a different podcast and I could hear your passion for the business still after 30 something years in the industry, I could still feel your passion as I was listening to you on this other podcast.

And one of my favorite things about this business too, is that every person that enters this business, it seems like they're so positive. And more importantly, it seems like they're willing to bet their paycheck on the fact that they can wake up tomorrow and make a sale. What was it specifically that made you decide to go get your real estate license and starting the business?

Well, like many other agents we all buy and buy houses eventually, and we either have a great experience or we might not have such a good experience. And depending on where we are in our lives. And I was at a place in my life where I was not so happy with my current career bought a house. I had a pretty bad experience.

And I envisioned myself in the place of that realtor thinking that I could do much, much better for people. So that's kind of what started me off if that makes sense to you. And, and I, I had been a teacher, which many people know that about me and which I did enjoy. And I was a special education teacher and I taught emotionally disturbed boys.

So, what I really liked about that was the way I could help them in their personal lives, as well as educating them. However at the time that I decided to get into real estate, I was at a really a point of frustration in that these, these guys, these kids, they were 16 to 19 years old. Would learn a lot in class and, and we, we do group sessions and they would seem to move along emotionally, but they went home and they went home to really upsetting environments environments that caused them to be somewhat the way they were.

And I started to become frustrated that every day. I was, we were backtracking and not moving forward and I always liked to see progress. So I became frustrated. And at that very same time, you know, happened to buy a home and think, Hmm, maybe, maybe I could do this. Well, it sure seems like you did it. You know, and so.

How did you have that issue when you started selling real estate that so many agents do where it's, it's tough to get your first sale or did you start out and just, you know, it just came to you naturally and maybe within your first month or so you got your first closing. No, like most agents, you, you really have to work at this.

It doesn't just come to you. It's something you work at now. I got into the market in a very good, there were lots of buyers similar to market today, not many sellers, lots of buyers. And so I had and I had a sphere of influence. My kids. Friend's parents and various people who would come, came to me over the first few months that they were, you know, they had a plan that maybe they'd like to move.

And I had marketed myself. I had sent out announcements. I did what I needed to do. But it took a while. I worked open houses. I, I sat floor time at the time. I did everything that you can do to try to find buyers which. Which I did in the first year and obviously finding sellers and representing sellers is a little bit more difficult because you need to have a track record, but when you're representing a buyer, you know, you've, you really can move forward without a whole lot of experience and use your company experience as your experience.

So I worked buyers and actually I never had my first settlement for six months. And I was really frustrated by that. I think I sold a house within four months, but there was a two months, 60 day closing and then I sold another. So I had two settlements after six months. However the next six months per progress beautifully.

And I ended up being the rookie of the year, that year. So I think I did 3 million and in those days I wasn't selling a $500,000 houses. They were, you know, in the mid one hundreds or 200,000. So it was a lot of houses. And I knew from the very beginning, how much I really had passion for what I was doing, because for the first time, in a long time, I was working with people who actually wanted to be with me.

And I felt that finally I had, I, I came into my own and I found a career where that I appreciated as much as I was appreciated, which meant a lot. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And that is that warm and fuzzy feeling. I always felt like when you have a good client and when they think you did a great job, a plus when they see that first house or that, you know, whatever a number of house it was that they saw and they walk in and they just love it.

And you're the person that opened up. That, that figurative and literal door for them. There's just something magical that happens in that moment. And I, one of the things, one of the things that I found, because there was such a scarcity of inventory, I would stay up hours and hours and we had to have MLS books at the time.

We didn't have a computer and I would, I would search for a needle in a haystack. Because I knew right then from, from my experience in the past, in my other career, that just because somebody was asking you for something, you might be able to help them with something slightly different and you could deliver something a little bit different, maybe a little bit outside of the area.

They requested maybe a house with another bedroom or one less bedroom, and that you could satisfy that buyer. With and be a little bit creative when doing so. Yeah, that's funny that you say that I actually used to train all of my agents and, and in my brokerage, I called it the 85% principle. And I said, if you can find 85% of what a client looks for that last 15% is always flexible.

You just got to hit all of the needs. And most of the wants and if you can get 85% of the way there, sometimes you can find people, things that they really weren't thinking of or in different neighborhoods or, or new construction that they weren't thinking about. Absolutely. It's that, that last 15% is where it's all at in this business.

I think looked at it. I hadn't looked at it that way. So you know, now we, here you are. 30 something years later and, and you're running the largest Berkshire Hathaway and, and you have 5,500 sales associates across the entire company in multiple States and in large region. But one of the things that I happen to know about you is you're very big on staying current.

Nick did with agents and your staff and everything like that. And they. Love it because you, it seems like you really care about them. Now I know one of the ways you do that is you reach out to some of them or maybe all of them on their birthdays, on their anniversaries of joining the company. How do you stay on top of that with 5,500 folks?

Well, let me say this. One of the ways that I stay in touch is I decided to do this actually during the pandemic. But I decided that that video has become so important and people seeing you and during the pandemic, we aren't able to be together. So I started to do a Monday morning video that I do every Monday morning.

No matter what, and it's just a short message, maybe a three minute video where they can see that I'm there during the pandemic. You know, I was. Giving some mental health advice advice at times, talk about our training, talk about the convention coming up, whatever. Maybe, you know, just some things that I hear from agents where they might say, you know, Joan, I'm really frustrated my best friend bought from another realtor.

How could they have done this to me? So we, we talk about how those things might happen and what to do about it and how to move on. And. Pick yourself up and brush yourself off and keep going. So we do that right at this point, as far as birthdays, as far as anniversaries, you have to have systems. So I have I have notifications in my phone that come up.

I and I also have some, some automatic systems. To be honest because with 5,500 people, if you didn't, it wouldn't get done. So I use technology to my advantage. In some of those cases, I make sure that I attend as many events as I possibly can to be in front of agents. I mean, to me, The agents give me my inspiration.

They make me want to wake up in the morning I admire. So what they do, I've done it. I know how hard it is. I know how passionate they are. And one of the things that I was a little bit apprehensive of when I went from being an agent to going into management was would I lose that passion? How would I recreate that passion?

And what I found very quickly was that. Being a sales office leader is similar to being an agent in that it's a relationship business. And so I was able to find that passion in my agents that I had found in my clients to help them. So now I could help many, many more people buy a home. Working through my agents and help my agents to have a better life, which I'm very passionate about.

So staying in front of them is, is kind of the fuel for my fire and whatever way I can do it. That's, that's what I do. That's great. So in, in. You know, 30 years of this, obviously there's been changes. You talked about just having systems in place. And, and obviously 30 years ago there wasn't systems.

Like we consider them today in terms of being able to track things, there was a Rolodex and, and post-it notes and, and by the way, too many agents still use post-it notes as their systems today, they're a system. If they were that's true works. If you can keep track of it, then that's great.

But. You know, in your experience over that period of time, what do you think the biggest change that's happened in the industry has been, Oh my goodness. There's been so many first off, you know, the internet came to be when I was in the business. And when before, I guess when I first managed there was no internet, so we right.

We were the gatekeeper. And how that has changed. We are, you know, we, we stopped being the gatekeeper in 2000 and the consumer had the information. So we always needed to be the trusted advisor for the consumer, but more than ever after the customer had the information, we certainly had to do that. And we had to create our value and our value and our expertise.

Was what was going to attract people to us, not the information. So that was, that's been a huge, huge change after that, you know, it it's, it's just been one change after another, you know, with these, the social media, and I'm sure I'm skipping a lot of years getting from the internet, Ben to social media, but certainly the way that people can You know, in the way that people can be with other people without having to leave their home, even before the pandemic really changed our business, the use of social media and letting people know that you, you know, that you, their kids want a soccer game and you applaud them or whatever, you don't have to be out and about as much to be as social as you might want to be.

So that's a big change. And I think over time you know, it used to be a market for brokers. When I got into the business, the broker was King. Then, then the agent was King. Then the consumer was King. The consumer is still King, but the agents are right up there behind them and they have so many choices and it's hard to decipher you know, which, which brokers best for them.

And oftentimes they're told things that don't come to be. And so I think it's harder for an agent today. As far as the consumer, there's so much information, so much on the internet and they really need the best agent they can find to decipher, you know, what their needs are and, and what will be best for them.

So, Lots of changes for sure. For sure. And one of the things you mentioned, you know, there was a sociologist, Robin Dunbar, have you ever heard of Dunbar's number before? Hmm, I think maybe, but I'm not familiar essentially. He came up with the concept that that the average person can only keep track of 150 relationships in their head and and have real meaningful relationships with them.

And of course, social media brought us to a position where. You know, you, you can still have a, a semi at least semi meaningful relationship with a whole lot more than 150 folks by just doing that applaud or, or, or staying connected in those ways, or, or certainly now in terms of using systems to keep track like a CRM of all of your clients and keeping track and, and touching base with them on a regular basis that has empowered us to grow.

And that's how you get to these. I think these mega teams and, and agents that are doing so much business. Not only are they great agents hopefully for the most part, but they're, they're also just very good at these systems and being able to grow that sphere of people that they can communicate with or stay in touch with on a regular basis.

So you, you bring up a good point because back when I started, there were no such thing as teams, right. That was a small broker in his office that, you know, we, we, as a company have have promoted teams since 2000. Incident that's, co-ed coincidentally with the beginning of the internet. Right. But we have really embraced teams from the beginning and we feel like they're a business within a business, but they have been able to grow in ways that are amazing since then.

And it used to be that a sales office leader sales office manager would have had enough experience to lead people. And maybe they did, you know, 7 million, 10 million, whatever. And now you have teams doing a hundred million and they look at their sales office manager, not necessarily as the, the content expert, because they never did as much business as this team is doing.

So that's a whole nother change in our industry. And, and so being a good coach is so important for our managers because You can, you can be a great coach without having actually done the same amount of business, for sure. And actually, if you don't mind, I'd love to dig into the teams concept with you for just a second.

Rob Hahn was on our podcast not too long ago. And Rob said that the biggest single threat. To the brokerage business is not, I buyers, it's not compass. It's not exp it's actually teams. First of all, do you agree or disagree with that? I don't agree. I think they're not a threat. That, I guess it depends on the way you look at it.

However, I think that a broker that doesn't embrace teams is threatened. Because teams are they work well for the consumer and they work well for the agents on the team and the team. So I think as a company, you've got to embrace teams and help them be a better team. So for instance, a lot of the team leaders are great sales agents, but they don't have that management experience and they need the help.

Have a great manager, a great company to help them and counsel them and coach them to be a manager, to a certain extent, to lead their people, to retain their people. So in my mind, as, as our job, as a brokerage is to help these teams and consult with these teams to help them to grow and to retain their best people.

And then you become an invaluable to them because you're helping them also with just not just the recruiting side and the retention side, but also the operation side. And that, that's actually something that I dug into with Rob of saying, you know, Hey, a lot of teams don't want to deal with this. But then his counter.

Point to me on that more or less was. Yeah, but even if they're paying 7% or, or some very low commission split percentage to the broker, that's still ends up to be a lot of money when you're selling $200 million a year, a real estate. So do you, do you think that the systems and the tools that can be provided by a brokerage?

Maybe not today, but let's say in five years from now, do you think the systems and the tools and the, the coaching, like you're talking about. And the recruiting and the retention capabilities for keeping people on teams. Do you think that's enough in five years from now to keep a mega team at a big broker?

Well, here's what I think about that. I don't think the systems and the tools are necessarily what will keep a team at a brokerage. I do think the relationship and the The counseling and the coaching is very important. They, the team are usually entrepreneurial and they want to differentiate themselves and they may not want to use any of the systems that you have because they don't want to look like another team or an, or another agent in your company.

They want to look very, very different. Now they may use...

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