Class is in session. Interdependent Study is about the learning and unlearning work for social justice and collective liberation. Interdependent Study is hosted by Damien Franze, an angry Black man from Baltimore who wears his heart on his sleeve, and Aaron Hood, an angry white man from Florida who is always thinking. We’re two friends who work in education and share a commitment to social justice. We believe that we are always learning; always arriving. People constantly learn and unlearn b ...
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Weaving Abolitionist Principles
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22:09It is important to mobilize people who are already organizing for and around a variety of issues and harness their energy into the work of prison abolition organizing. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the fourth piece in a six-part series titled “Abolitionist Lessons from the Prison Belt” in Inquest called “Organizing the Already Mobilized”, whic…
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Cross Movement Solidarity Against Fascism
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21:45We need solidarity across our movements and organizing work in the fight against fascism and authoritarianism and for our collective liberation. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss two pieces in The Forge, including “The Climate Movement Must Be A Movement Against Fascism” by Aru Shiney-Ajay and “Solidarity is the Solution” by Jeremiah Smith, which …
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Alabama's Depraved Prisons w/ Dakarai Larriett
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30:42The state prison system in Alabama is one of the deadliest in the nation and a case study for the need for abolition. Listen as Aaron and Damien AND special guest Dakarai Larriett discuss the documentary “The Alabama Solution” (directed by Andrew Jarecki and Charlotte Kaufman), which exposes and chronicles the widespread corruption, brutality, and …
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The Trump administration’s deployment and use of the National Guard and federalization of local law enforcement is a dangerous tactic with a potentially significant long-term impact moving forward. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss a piece in Hammer & Hope titled “Whose Streets? Trump’s Federalized National Guard and the Long Arc of White Supremac…
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Listen When Things Fall Apart
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29:38There is so much we can all learn from seasoned activists, scholars, and organizers as we continue to fight for social justice and collective liberation during these challenging times. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Read This When Things Fall Apart: Letters to Activists in Crisis, edited by Kelly Hayes (and published by AK Press), whic…
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Prisons Are Not Inevitable
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24:26An important outcome of prison abolition organizing is to help address the political economic geography of unfreedom. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the third piece in a six-part series titled “Abolitionist Lessons from the Prison Belt” in Inquest called “Custody and Power”, which features a conversation between Lydia Pelot-Hobbs, Judah Schept,…
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Unlearning for Collective Liberation
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31:37The key to unlearning lies in community, and we must embrace unlearning as a collective practice in order to fight for collective liberation. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Radical Unlearning: The Art and Science of Creating Change from Within by Lewis Raven Wallace (and published by Beacon Press), which explores and analyzes the conce…
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The hope for real change in America after the election of President Obama was stifled in the wake of racism, vigilante violence, and police brutality. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the sixth and final episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “What Comes After Hope? (2008-2015)” (directed b…
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The Movement for Resegregation
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23:51Affirmative action is about righting some of the wrongs of our society and our history. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the fifth episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “We Don’t See Color (1996-2013)” (directed by Smriti Mundhra), which explores the complexities and impact of affirmative …
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Spineless Politicians Refuse to Acknowledge Genocide
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21:23Despite the inaction of the Democratic Party leadership, the consensus among the base of the Democratic Party is for the U.S. government to end its support of Israel’s efforts to commit genocide in Palestine. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Democratic Leadership Still Hasn’t Caught Up to the Party’s Base on Gaza” by Stephen Zunes in I…
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Wisdom & Connection Through Water
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28:57What might it mean to truly listen to, know, and exist with water in our lives and in our fight for collective liberation? Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead by Leanne Betasamosake Simpson (and published by Haymarket Books), which explores Nishnaabeg origin stories to offer a radical reima…
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Organizing for the World Beyond Trump
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23:20The need for local and regional networks in our mass movements and organizing efforts is huge in order to meet the fascist and authoritarian moment we are in. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece "Building an Opposition to Survive the Trump Era” by Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor in Hammer & Hope, which analyzes the scale, scope, and impact of mass…
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Bringing Environmental Justice & Abolition Together
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20:48It is important that abolitionists and environmental justice organizers fight a common purpose in their work and fight for justice. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the second piece in a six-part series titled “Abolitionist Lessons from the Prison Belt” in Inquest called “Abolition and Environmental Justice”, which features a conversation between…
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Toxic Spills & Organized Resistance
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28:14The presence and impact of environmental racism is real and has been a long-standing issue in our society. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the fourth episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “Spoil the Vine (1982-2011)” (directed by Rudy Valdez), which chronicles the organizing, growth, and …
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Resist the Debt, Death, and Deportation Machine
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23:13It could not be more clear that we need a new united front against fascism. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Where Was the Resistance to Trump’s Megabill of Debt, Death, and Deportation?” by Shamell Bell in Hammer & Hope, which utilizes the resistance to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act as a case study to highlight the importance of buil…
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Recalibrations of White Supremacism
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31:58There are countless examples throughout history and around the world of how racial capitalism reproduces and protects itself and white supremacy. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book The New Racial Regime: Recalibrations of White Supremacy by Alana Lentin (and published by Pluto Press), which outlines and analyzes the attacks on anticolonial…
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Permutations of Prison Expansion
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25:13It’s important to consider the need for different strategies in the fight for prison abolition based on the specific region of the country. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the first of a six-part series titled “Abolitionist Lessons from the Prison Belt” in Inquest called “Uneven Expansions”, which features a conversation between Lydia Pelot-Hobb…
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Building Informational Power
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26:21There is real power in building and utilizing informational power as a strategy within our abolitionist movements to resist authoritarianism and fight for collective liberation. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the report “Shaping Reality: Building Informational Power to Resist Authoritarianism” by Lewis Raven Wallace (and produced by Interruptin…
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Big Egregious Wealth Transfer
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29:45It is important for all of us to know and understand everything that is in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act to know what provisions are coming during the next few years. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “10 Egregious Things You May Not Know About the One Big Beautiful Bill Act” by Colin Seeberger, Andrea Ducas, and Natasha Murphy and publ…
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Fascists Attack Dissent Because They're Afraid
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21:34We are witnessing the current administration’s outrageous and harmful efforts to silence dissent and curtail our freedoms on a daily basis. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “‘I Am Not Afraid’” by Adam Federman in In These Times, which analyzes some of the troubling and dangerous efforts by the Trump administration and its far-right loya…
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Centuries of Witch Hunting
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23:00The influence and impact of capitalism across the globe on violence against women, especially with witch hunts, cannot be understated. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Witches, Witch-Hunting, and Women by Silvia Federici (and published by PM Press), which outlines and analyzes the root causes and impact of interpersonal and institutional…
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Talking about the Million Man March
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24:38Our learning from the stories of people and communities that have worked tirelessly throughout history for racial and social justice in this country continues. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the third episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “Million Man March 1995” (directed by Muta'Ali), …
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The history of police use of tear gas in the United States is a history worth learning. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the zine “A [short] History of U.S. Police & Tear Gas” by Mariame Kaba (and published as a resource by Interrupting Criminalization), which outlines and analyzes the history and use of tear gas by the police in the United State…
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Remaking the World with Reparations Pt. 2
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26:21Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò argues that one of the biggest struggles facing our generation is the climate crisis, and we must act now. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the second half of the book Reconsidering Reparations: Why Climate Justice and Constructive Politics Are Needed in the Wake of Slavery and Colonialism by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (and published by …
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Remaking the World with Reparations
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26:18There is no doubt about the impact of colonialism, capitalism, transatlantic slavery, and the climate crisis on the creation of the global racial empire. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the first half of the book Reconsidering Reparations: Why Climate Justice and Constructive Politics Are Needed in the Wake of Slavery and Colonialism by Olúfẹ́mi…
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Literal and Metaphorical Fires
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28:32The impact of the 2025 Southern California wildfires has been devastating, but the revitalization and regeneration efforts by communities in Altadena is a true inspiration. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Between Fires in Los Angeles and Fascism in America” by Robin D.G. Kelley in Hammer & Hope, which chronicles the impact of and resp…
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Authoritarians at Home and Abroad
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27:50Fascism, authoritarianism, and the far-right insurgency here in the United States and in Europe are on the rise and undoubtedly devastating for all of us. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Donald Trump and the Far-Right Insurgency in Europe” by Gary Younge in Hammer & Hope, which outlines and analyzes the history, rise, leaders, and man…
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The Relentless and Recurring Nakba
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33:48Without a doubt, Palestinian humanity deserves more than it has been given. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Perfect Victims: And the Politics of Appeal by Mohammed El-Kurd (and published by Haymarket Books), which examines and analyzes the concepts of humanity and perfect victimhood in regards to Palestine and the Palestinian people thr…
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Police, Prosecutors, and Politicians Vs. the People
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22:39There continues to be much to learn from the stories of people and communities that have worked tirelessly throughout history for racial and social justice in this country. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the second episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “Trapped 1989-1995” (directed by Sa…
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Time for a General Strike?
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25:13There’s been an increase in the number of organizers, activists, and organizations calling for a national strike in the United States to combat the fascism and violence we face at the hands of our government. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “What would a general strike in the US actually look like?” by Jeremy Brecher in Waging Nonviole…
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Criminalization of Librarians
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24:38The right’s onslaught of attacks on books, education, and learning have also included attacks on and the criminalization of librarians. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss an essay titled “Criminalizing Librarians: Threats and Realities” by Mariame Kaba and published by Interrupting Criminalization, which highlights some of the attacks on librarians…
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Abolition through the Years
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28:14We must continue our movement for abolition and fight against state violence, oppression, and punishment at all costs. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Abolition: Politics, Practices, and Promises, Vol. 1 by Angela Davis (and published by Haymarket Books), which is a collection of Davis’ essays analyzing the history of abolitionist pract…
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Lessons from Economic Crises & Epidemics
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27:07There is so much to learn from the stories of people and communities that have worked tirelessly for racial and social justice in the Civil Rights Movement and beyond. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the first episode of the docuseries “Eyes on the Prize III: We Who Believe in Freedom Cannot Rest” titled “America, Don’t Look Away 1977-1988” (dir…
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Disrupting Business as Usual
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23:33The labor movement faces a critical moment that could impact generations to come. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss a piece titled “For Labor, Caution Is Fatal” by Stephen Lerner in In These Times, which highlights and analyzes the current moment the labor movement is in right now and the challenges that the new administration poses to its progres…
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The Not-So-Slow Death of the Bill of Rights
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22:30It is clear that the Trump administration is targeting colleges and universities, as well as students protesting in support of Palestine. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss a piece called “Trump’s targeting of students protesting genocide opens new lines of attack” by Neha Madhira in Prism, which highlights how the detainment of Mahmoud Khalil and …
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Guidance for Troublemakers
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25:14It is no secret that the state uses violence and coercion to suppress social movements in this country. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss a resource titled “A Troublemakers Guide: Principles for Racial Justice Activists in the Face of State Repression” by the Catalyst Project,…
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Delusions of White Supremacists
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21:22The connections between white supremacy and fascism to sci-fi and fantasy are clear. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Sci-fi, Fantasy, and Fascism” by Sherronda J. Brown in Scalawag, which analyzes and critiques the ways that imagination and fantasy get used by white supremacist and fascist worldviews to advance outrageous and dangerou…
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Bayard Rustin was a key figure and leader of the Civil Rights Movement, but because he was a gay man, he was mostly relegated to the background and cast as an outsider. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the documentary “Brother Outsider: The Life of Freedom Fighter Bayard Rustin” (co-produced and co-directed by Nancy Kates and Bennett Singer), whi…
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The fight against fascism across the globe is necessary for the survival of Black people. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book The Black Antifascist Tradition: Fighting Back From Anti-Lynching to Abolition by Jeanelle K. Hope and Bill V. Mullen (published by Haymarket Books), which chronicles the history of the fight against fascism and anti…
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We must resist the government takeover by the billionaire Right and fascists at all costs. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “In the Face of Overwhelm” by Asha Ransby-Sporn in In These Times, which analyzes the ongoing government takeover by fascists and the billionaire Right and highlights what we can and must do to resist being overwhe…
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Fight the Anti-Trans Agenda
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23:02Despite the flurry and onslaught of anti-trans legislation and actions by the new administration, we must stand committed to defending the humanity of trans people and fight this fascist, anti-trans agenda at all costs. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Trump’s Latest Anti-Trans Actions and How We Can Fight Back” by Kelly Hayes in her n…
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There is still much work to be done regarding the future of the struggle to disrupt the distribution of United States weaponry and support to Israel in the ultimate hope to dismantle Zionism and imperialism. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Our Fight Doesn’t End at Cease-Fire” by Nashwa Bawab in In These Times, which features parts of …
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We've got a solo episode today. Aaron revisits and reads Toni Morrison's 1995 essay Racism and Fascism. We explored and appreciated this essay in October 2024 thanks to In These Times decision to republish it. We felt a sense of truth-telling that continues to reverberate 30 years later. Follow us on social media and visit our website! Patreon…
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The inauguration of Donald Trump on the same day as the Martin Luther King, Jr. Holiday highlights the fact that we are witnessing and living through a significant clash of opposing visions. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “MLK’s Legacy Is One of Class Struggle. To Fight Trump, We Must Carry His Torch.” by Nicholas Powers in Truthout, …
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Teach Truth & Commit Truthcrime
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27:32Given the countless and relentless political attacks on education and learning across the country, the need for antiracist education and educators is paramount. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Teach Truth: The Struggle for Antiracist Education by Jesse Hagopian, which explores and analyzes the concept and disturbing power of uncritical …
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Uranium & Nuclear Colonialism
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24:25Nuclear colonialism and racism are at the core of the Indigenous struggle for healthy and viable sacred land in the American Southwest. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the documentary Demon Mineral (directed by Hadley Austin), which chronicles the ongoing Indigenous struggle to reclaim healthy and sacred land among the uranium mines and radioact…
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With the 2024 election behind us, it is important to figure out where we go from here. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “Donald Trump’s Victory, the Elitism of Democrats, and the Need to Build a Hospitable Left” in Hammer & Hope, which features a conversation between Daniel Denvir and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor analyzing the 2024 president…
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2024 is almost over so it’s time for our last episode of the year! Listen as Aaron and Damien reflect on the past year of our podcast, and each share our top 5 moments from the show. Thank you so much for listening to Interdependent Study! We’ll see you in 2025! Follow us on social media and visit our website! Patreon…
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There has been much debate over the years about the actions of the United States around the globe as the world’s leading democracy. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the book Abolition Democracy: Beyond Empire, Prisons, and Torture by Angela Davis, which is a collection of interviews of Davis discussing her critiques of democracy, the connections …
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History and everyday life have proven that the prison industrial complex and fascism are connected. Listen as Aaron and Damien discuss the piece “The Punishment System and Fascism Go Hand in Hand” by Rachel Herzing, Amelia Kirby, and Jack Norton in Hammer & Hope, which analyzes the importance of understanding the role that the prison industrial com…
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